Are flaxseeds really ok for men?


#10

What’s the difference between them? Apart from the fact that flax has even more phytoestrogens than soy…


#11

Well, obviously they both have a phytoestrogens, however they both contain different phytoestrogens from one another. Soya has isoflavones, Genistein and Daidzein respectively, flax has various lignans instead.

There are countless foods that already contain lignans, such as many vegetables and grains, such as oats!

They are there naturally anyway in your diet, no matter if you eat Flaxseeds or not. I do see your point regarding the fact that flax does have a denser amount of lignans, but as a whole flax is dense anyway, from a calorie and nutritional standpoint, it’s not exactly like you’re eating an entire kg of flax.

There is only 12g if flax per 100g of huel apparently, so if you ate 2000 calories worth of huel that’s only 60g. Again it’s about perspective, yes flax has 3 tines the amount than soya, but it’s very likely if you’d eat a soya product that you’d be eating more than 3 times the amount that you would be able to in flax seeds.

Also worth pointing out that Chia seeds and Sesame seeds both contain lignans, no one talks about those for example.

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Hope this helps! :slight_smile:


Will there ever be anything without Flaxseeds?
#12

Huel saw me through some good gains last year. I didn’t worry about flaxseeds or estrogen at all and it all went swimmingly


#13

Thanks for all your answers. What do you guys think of this study:

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/4/829?ijkey=4c97212772ba82aaaf19f67890d4e7b88d76ccfa&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha


#14

Good find.

Now, I’ll bullet point my thoughts on it.

  • Small group of people, only 13
  • one had a testosterone level of 1300ng/dl… That’s not normal, trust me. (possibly steroid use prior to study?)
  • the one guy with the high levels dropped rapidly, (suspiciously) thus skewing the results overall.
  • the other subjects showed either little variation or a small increase.
  • 30% of them already had lower testosterone levels to start with.
  • the LH level didn’t increase, which typically happens in the event of testosterone decreasing/ primary Hypogonadism.

Just remember it’s only one study, there are hundreds and hundreds done on soy, with varying results, I’m still in the camp that it’s probably fine. I just choose to avoid/lessen it for various other reasons.

Another point regarding phytoestrogens is that they always have a much lower affinity on the estrogen receptor compared to actual endogenous estrogen. About a few hundred times weaker.

I’d be more worried about the plastic bottle you’ve drunk out of, or the plastic container used to reheat food in the microwave to be perfectly honest.

From an anecdotal point of view (not which this matters), when I last had a Blood test done for Estradiol I was actually consuming a truckload of soy protein isolate, I wanted to try it out of curiosity, anyway it came back at 70 pmol/L, which is a decent number, the one prior without soy in my diet was around the same. For the record I’m on TRT, so if soy was going to cause high Estrogen from increased aromatase then its going to happen to me. I also know a vegan who is on TRT and consumes tons of soy and is also fine. Again anecdotal.


#15

I also have very little insight into the effect of phytoestrogens but have definitely increased muscle mass on around a 50% Huel diet.


#16

Bumping this and especially have two questions for you @Stole_My_Sweetroll.

  • What about DHT levels? I know they’re an important part of our manliness too, I don’t want them to drop because of flaxseeds and I saw on another thread that you said they dropped.
  • Could the fact that you’re on Hormone Therapy be responsible for your T levels staying normal?

#17

Im getting worried of this kind of messages. Starting to see this more frecuentñy in forums such as Reddit


#18

I get the humour… But…

The video is clearly a biased load of BS aimed at making some pontificated political assertion about soy causing left wing men, it’s also highly unscientific, and incorrect, the only part he got right was a couple of the symptoms of Low Testosterone, that’s it.

And also as might as I like elliot hulse who was featured in the video, he’s also wrong, soy is a very poor HRT for women, because it’s such a weak estrogen, it’s around 100x low affinity for the receptor, if it was so great then why isn’t every women using soy post menopause? :thinking: Oh wait, because it doesn’t work. :roll_eyes:


#19

Yeah, fair points.

Yes there was some small evidence that it could potentially lower DHT, however when you dig deeper you’ll find tons of foods have the potential to do the same unfortunately, this includes tomatoes and even green tea, I also consume tons of those and I can assume my DHT levels are quite fine from my constant need to shave and all the rest of it haha.

The symptoms for low DHT would be erection issues, low sex drive and lack of facial and body hair growth, they do overlap with the symptoms of low T but tend to be related to the androgenic side of it all, aka what makes a male, male.

To be honest anything with fibre seems to lower DHT it seems, hence why flax could be linked mildly, not because of the phytoestrogens but because of the fibre.

This isn’t to say fibre is bad at all, unless you want constipation, hemorrhoids and/or possible future bowl cancer.



https://www.anabolicmen.com/dietary-fiber-testosterone/

Once again, all of this is on mice feed the food in isolation, like most things when you sit and eat truck loads of one thing in isolation bad things happen, that’s just how it is. Hence why for example you’d consume Huel over a bag of flax seeds, who’d sit and eat an entire bag of flax?! You get my point.

Now, going back to me being on TRT, yes that’ll ensure that my levels of Testosterone remain fairly static and therefore won’t move too much in relation to the foods I eat, since my own endogenous production is now shut down and nonexistent. However my estrogen, DHT and even SHBG will still be effected because they work of the conversion of testosterone by aromatase (estrogen) or 5α-Reductase (DHT), so if those were being substantially altered then I’d soon know, trust me.

People seem to think one little bit of a phytoestrogen and poof out comes the gynecomastia fairy, on a rampage to cause some ED and bitch tits with a flick of her wrist… :roll_eyes:

You’ve only got the look at the Asian countries, they certainly don’t have issues procreating. :slight_smile:


#20

Not on topic as such, but isn’t it associated with Left Wing men? Typically submissive liberalism?


#21

Yeah, meant left, dyslexic moment…


#22

Your dyslexic moment triggered an OCD moment for me :stuck_out_tongue:


#23

Between you and SwiftKey I’ve got the perfect spell-check…! :joy::wink:


#24

Interesting article here. Bottom line: Fluctuations in testosterone levels within the normal range doesn’t really mean very much for body composition.


#25

I’m really not worried about flax seeds and T levels. You’re much better off focusing your attention on eating well, sleeping enough, not drinking alcohol too often and working out as much as you practically can.

Flax is going to do you way more good than harm but you’ve got to take responsibility for the rest of your lifestyle.


#26

This! :point_up_2:

Couldn’t have said it better myself, I’m actually writing an article on how to potentially preserve testosterone levels, and what you’ve mentioned is spot on!


#27

:+1:
I’m definitely interested in reading what you have to say on it. Keep us posted.


#28

That’s a terrible video, bold assertions, no sources cited, and the few references are to people entirely unqualified to comment.

A big chunk of it is Paul Watson talking about entirely unrelated subjects (refugees) or cherry picking idiots on Twitter (there’s dumb comments on social media⁉).

If you haven’t watched it, take 30 minutes and watch Harris Bomberguy’s reply, Soy Boys: A Measured Response.

In brief: testosterone levels naturally vary over short periods of time, they go up and down. There’s no connection between testosterone and sperm counts.

And the kicker? From the report that Paul clearly hangs most of his argument on:

“The clinical significance of these findings remains to be determined. Owing to the scarcity of human data in this area, it is very important that this issue is examined further”

Soy food and isoflavone intake in relation to semen quality parameters among men from an infertility clinic, Chavarro et al

… You can see from Paul’s response, The Truth About Soy Face, he’s more than a little put out. Not that he directly addresses Harris’s reply. He just digs himself in even deeper.

Harris replied again – and oh the irony – it turns out that the Brain Force Pro supplement that Paul talks about and promotes at InfoWars has soy as its chief ingredient, Nice Try, Paul.


#29

Totally agree, couldn’t have said it better myself! :slight_smile:

Although there is a connection between testosterone and sperm counts, I assure you, however much of that is down to the pathology behind the why the testosterone is low on that person, varicoceles for example will negativeity effect both testosterone and sperm count, as will things like pituitary issues such as a prolactinoma.