Hot & Savoury update - real talk

Huel updates
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I’ve been working closely with our sustainability team to gather as much information as possible to address your questions and explain our approach.

The 3% figure refers to carbon emissions, which we track internally as it is a well-established indicator of climate change impact. While carbon is our primary metric, we are also considering other targets, including water use and biodiversity. Across all our packaging, approximately 10% is non-recyclable. The remaining % is made up of pouches, labels (Except for Daily Greens, Complete Protein and Essentials which are all in recyclable pouches) and the seals on our H&S pots We’ve managed to reduce it to this level by making considerable efforts to optimize our packaging, minimize plastic use, and switch to recyclable formats wherever possible.

That said, plastic remains one of the most efficient materials for food products due to its durability, food safety benefits, protective qualities, and lightweight nature. Our previous research found that some recyclable formats led to increased product wastage, causing greater environmental harm. Reducing our non-recyclable packaging to 10% demonstrates our dedication to minimizing our environmental impact, and we remain committed to pursuing innovations and improvements in the packaging space.

Regarding our recent shift to plastic pots, you may wonder why we moved away from paper pots. There were a couple of significant challenges with the paper packaging. Firstly, the product’s aroma often seeped through the material, leading to numerous customer complaints. Secondly, the new plastic pots allowed us to add a fill line to the card sleeve, improving the user experience and ensuring more consistent results — no more overly soupy noodles. Additionally, sourcing the plastic pots from a local supplier closer to our manufacturing site has helped us further reduce our CO2 emissions. worth just mentioning that although recyclable, make sure to separate the pot and the cardboard sleeve.

As for the sachets, we understand the concerns around plastic pollution. This decision was made with the goal of enhancing user experience, and we will continually evaluate its impact. Rest assured, we are committed to reviewing all changes to ensure we strike the right balance between improving our packaging and maintaining the product’s quality.

I hope this addresses your questions. If there’s anything further you’d like to discuss, please feel free to reach out. I’m more than happy to clarify or provide additional information.

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123

Just had my first Hot & Savoury Pasta & Noodles box and was pleasantly surprised after reading comments in here and it wasn’t as smelly as expected. Well done!

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I believe they became less smelly once they changed the pots from paper to plastic; I remember receiving my first delivery when they first launched and the kitchen cupboard stank for ages.

I don’t have any issue with the smell now and I have pots of all the noodle ones.

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Sorry to repeat myself , but I’m still curious… are we allowed to know?

@aly estimated at least a 100% increase in plastic with the new individual sachets. I’m hoping it’s much less. :crossed_fingers:

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No need to apologise, curiosity is what I’m all about!

So, moving to single-serve sachets, the plastic packaging has increased by +66% in weight.

Multi-Pouch (7 servings) = 21.97G
Individual Sachet = 5.2g but this x 7 = 36.4g

I know I’ve mentioned this before, but just a quick reminder that the old multi-serve pouch also wasn’t recyclable. However, our new Meal Pack is still super lightweight and makes up less than 3% of the product’s carbon footprint.

We’re always on the lookout for better materials, but it’s all about finding the right balance between durability and low emissions. These things take time, but we’re committed to making sustainable improvements!

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Thanks Mark, much appreciated.

A 66% increase is regrettable but 5.2g of plastic per meal still sounds like way less than most other convenience foods. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Wow…

When I thought I could not get more disappointed that when you discontinued the granola, which I was consuming daily.

I look forward every day to eat my Huel and I tell everybody how good is it, and I prefer Mac and Cheeze and Carbonara above all, after that it is chicken and mushroom and after that almost nothing else, except a bit of sweet and sour. And you are removing MAc and Cheeze and Carbonara!!!

Ok, you get complaints from people that cannot move the bag before opening and do not try to have a powder pasta ratio constant in their cups, I get that. But couldn’t you just first introduce the sachets and see what happens, and then discontinuing?

Do you not value at all the loyal customer experience and how this feels to people who consume this almost daily?

I once tried other brands and they tasted awful, but this is the type of things that make you consider give them another go to see if they improved.

Come on, it is so frustrating that you remove precisely these… Didn’t you add to the equation the dissatisfaction that this movement would produce?

On another note, maybe you could remove them just for Italy?, for what I know from them I am almost sure that most of the complaints would come from there, as pasta for them is a sacred ritual and anything that has a pasta related name will be for sure faced with ferocius critics and inssuferable complaints. Have you considered this as well?

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Firstly, welcome back!

Before I dive into your points, I will say I posted another update yesterday regarding the range just to so you can make sure you stay up to date. You can find that here

In terms of negative feedback, we look at lots of different metrics before we decide on this. The core one’s we look at are the following

  • Repeat Rate (RR) - This measures how often you, our Hueligans, come back for more Huel products, whether it’s the same flavour, another flavour, or something totally different. It’s important because it helps us rank clearly which products are preferred and which are good gateways to other products.
  • Net Promoter Score (NPS) - This metric asks how likely you are to recommend Huel to your friends and family. A high score from you means we’re doing things right and that you’re spreading the Huel love! It’s not directly product related, but we can draw correlations with the above metrics and products to help form a picture.
  • Complaints - While they might seem like bad news, your complaints are golden opportunities for us to improve. We appreciate your feedback and aim to turn negatives into positives where possible.

These are all things we take into consideration before deciding to remove a product. That being said, there could be a time and space in the future where something like Mac & cheese or Carbonara is back! We’re working so hard on new and exciting things, up and coming, so who knows what we could see in the future :heart:

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Thanks for the elaborated response Mark.

However seems to me that you actually did not weight in the let down on your loyal customers. Like, you use “success” metrics to take business decisions, but you give zero importance to the “bodies” you leave on the way. I mean you’ve been selling a product for years, which is meant to be eaten, every day! Of course some form of dependency or emotional attachment is going to be formed among the users that love it, and it really feels like getting betrayed that you discontinue it because it does not perform well in certain metrics.
Anyways, I guess that’s life, we oughta move on and do what’s best for us without thinking on loyalties or attachments, and this actually let me discover Vite Ramen for example (I’ve managed to convince like 3 or 4 people to have Huel regularly, or at least for the time I was working with them, but I don’t think I can recommend it anymore, it is a brand that will discontinue your favorite flavors…)

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I doubt that’s the case; it’s not good business practice to piss off the loyal consumers. At the same time it’s not good business practice to continue to invest in products that just don’t sell well enough to warrant continuing with them. I’ve been annoyed at plenty of things that have changed around Huel, but at the same time when I started consuming it, there was just original powder and unflavoured powder. Now there is plenty more choice, and I accept that decisions made to alter or delist products are done to benefit the business not to churn customers.

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@Mark_Huel I’ve only just learned about this from an email and all I can say is “wow”. It really seems like Huel is only after a certain type of customer now (on the go, spicy food-loving gym bros?). That’s your prerogative, of course. And I can admit I’m very grateful for you taking the time to explain the thought process behind this, but holy hell does the line of reasoning seem counter-intuitive to me. So let me get this right:

  • you’re increasing the amount of waste produced by your products and thereby
  • increasing carbon emissions
  • you’re removing most of the non-spicy flavors (which are the only ones some of your customers eat)
  • you’re reducing the selection overall

And you think this will get you… more business? I do understand Huel is a busines, but that is precisely why I’m so confused. These seem like really poor business decisions. I wonder that no one in your consulting circle has never worked in hospitality before. It’s always the case that from 100 customers that walk into a restaurant, 90 will leave perfectly satisfied, 3 will be very pissed and leave negative reviews, and 7 will be quiet happy but only of them will leave reviews. So, when you look at yelp or whatever, you see 3 negative reviews and 1 positive and consider the place a bust. But that ignores the 90 satisfied people and the other 6 very happy people. But that seems like possibly what you’ve done. Now, if you were to only look at the negative comments you’re getting about cheesy flavors or inconsistency in ratios/portions from pouches, that would be 1 for 1 what you’re doing, but I do appreciate that you’re taking into account repeat orders. That too, does not tell a complete story, though.

You have to also realize, most of your non-repeat orders are no doubt people who decided to try your savory offerings and realized the whole situation wasn’t so much their thing. (that was me, before you added more flavors and variety) Then you’ve got people like me who spend about 4k euros a year on your products. And you’re removing most of the things I wanted to spend my money on. Like, I disagree with the move to more single-serve packages on multiple levels, but it wouldn’t keep me from ordering. I would just grumble about it while I did it. But you keeping almost entirely the spicy flavors that are wayyy too spicy for me? Well, I simply don’t have much else to buy from you. Sure, your breakfast shakes and bars are still fine, but I don’t want to order those from you and some savory stuff from someone else. I’ll now just look for a business that can provide both. The main reason you had me as a regular customer was because your products are vegan and I am vegan and so are both of the people who live with me. We relied on taking savory Huel with us all over the world as we travel and never know when we’ll be able to find Vegan food in a given place. It was extremely useful for us in that regard.

I am just so confused, because if you had changed nothing, essentially, some of your customers maybe didn’t love all of your offerings, but were still ordering other things. A move like this actually loses you customers. How can this be perceived as a net gain, financially, for you?

Sometimes, having some products that perform not as well and others that do, but keeping both on the menu allows you to maintain a wider and more disparate customer base which gets you more recommendations from people with different palates and lifestyles. Take the BBQ restaurant that has a vegan burger on the menu. Maybe it doesn’t get ordered very often at all, but maybe those the 8-top table last week and the 22-top graduation party this week decided to come to your restaurant because even though they wanted BBQ, they both had a vegan member with them and chose according to which place can provide a meal for everyone in the party. That kind of thing. It just seems like you’re deciding to really only focus on one type of customer and double down. I hope it works out for you, but I’ll unfortunately have to unsubscribe and look for another provider when this change has been implemented. I don’t say this with angst or a desire to “announce my exit”, but you should be aware what the effects of your business decisions are. You’ll get some raw numbers soon enough, but instead of simply seeing one customer quietly disappear, you’ll now know the reason why.

Best of luck.

P.S. Mac and Cheese was my favorite ><

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[quote=“seralyn, post:133, topic:26383”]I
am just so confused, because if you had changed nothing, essentially, some of your customers maybe didn’t love all of your offerings, but were still ordering other things. A move like this actually loses you customers. How can this be perceived as a net gain, financially, for you?
[/quote]

This makes no sense. How do you know that those customers were buying other things? Maybe they were churning and going elsewhere for what they wanted.

If you see the growth of the company over the decade they have been in business, they must be doing something right. Yes, they probably lose some customers but they are gaining many more.

From what you say, and if your argument is correct Huel would have just stuck to original vanilla powder and unflavoured unsweetened and that was enough.
Back then I thought that perhaps it was all they would do. But they offer a whole range of food items now, as well as greens and vitamin drink.

My favourite savoury is Mac and cheese, but the original Mac and cheese was better. They tweaked that in a way that I didn’t appreciate but I still liked it more than many who didn’t like the switch. But now there are many who don’t know the original Mac and cheese, and soon who won’t know the original (slimy) grain dishes.

I can assure you they will have considered all of your points, whether you are happy with how it turned out or not. And you can also be assured that there is plenty going on behind the scenes to attract new customers and retain/regain old ones.

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Let’s break this down.

Respectfully, I’ll have to disagree with some of what you are saying. Yes we are here for the on-the-go people, but when you mention “Spicy food-loving gym bros” that’s not correct at all. Huel is designed for everyone first and foremost. When it comes to spicy options, in our pots the hottest one is Fiery chick’,n where everything else is quite mild. In pouches, yes we offer spicy flavours but we do also offer some options that are not spicy.

I’ve mentioned this before in the thread, but One of the most important things we look at when assessing our sustainability is our carbon emissions. Our pouches are lightweight and have a shelf life of over 12 months. While not recyclable, they account for less than 3% of the product’s carbon footprint.

Understood that we are seeing some removals of flavours but options like the Carbonara are moving into pot form. I understand that this might not work for you as you may not want to pay the small increase or even want to have this in pot form. What I will say though is we are working hard behind the scenes on new flavours so who knows what we could see in the future! Some of the revamped grains range could be something that interests you?

So, as previously mentioned, we look at lots of different things to decide this; it’s not just something we wake up and decide. We understand that customers will be unhappy, and that is the last thing we want but we need to find the balance right?

Can I ask why on multiple levels?

We are constantly looking at bring new and exciting flavour options to the table, what would you like to see from us?

I understand and it’s sad that you are going to unsubscribe. It’s worth mentioning that we will be running stock down so if you wanted to, you are able to stock up on the products you enjoy before the delist takes place.

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Wanted to grab this bit separately.

So let’s break it down. Although there was much success with the range there was also some challenges, some of which I’ve alluded to above. We’ve looked at a variety of metrics and data to form these decisions. Do we know if it’s a successful move? To be quite frank, we don’t but the changes we’ve made to formats and recipe changes (The grains revamp) we believe that these improvements to the range will improve the Hot & Savoury category overall.

Net gain, financially…proof is in the pudding, right?

I think I’ve understood your question, but if not, please let me know, and I’ll be happy to dive more into this if needed.

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Not super familiar with this forum format, so I hope this reaches you, @Mark_Huel

Firstly, a big thank you for your thoughtful and clever responses. I still don’t agree with some of the views, but the fact that you’re willing to hash them out with frustrated and whiny internet people (like I am atm ><) is not lost on me or others, I think it’s safe to say.

Respectfully, I’ll have to disagree with some of what you are saying. Yes we are here for the on-the-go people, but when you mention “Spicy food-loving gym bros” that’s not correct at all. Huel is designed for everyone first and foremost. When it comes to spicy options, in our pots the hottest one is Fiery chick’,n where everything else is quite mild. In pouches, yes we offer spicy flavours but we do also offer some options that are not spicy.

Although the points you made after this are actually pretty based, this one seems like a very weak argument from your side. You’re eliminating most of your non-spicy flavors here (I’m in Spain for clarity) and keeping what will now be more spicy flavors than not. That said, I can agree that some of the flavors marked with the one single chili pepper icon (like the Katsu Curry for example) are not really spicy to me at all. But some people who might be more used to eating spicy food all the time (I am forced to suppose you are one of these!) may not realize how spicy some of this stuff is. The Thai Green Curry, Mexican Chili for example… I love the flavors but the spice level makes me stop eating in the middle of the cup and wait it out to continue. So those have only been ordered once. Point being, if they were notably less spicy, I’d order them happily. It’s a shame none of these are spicy because it’s super easy to make things spicy with hot sauces and chili flakes and so on, but essentially nothing despices foods. Check it out. If you guys were eliminating all the flavors you did, but none of the remaining flavors were spicy, I’d be grumbling about the selection getting slimmer but still wanting to order what’s there. But in this case, very little of what remains is edible for a spice-wimp like myself. Just saying.

The rest of the points don’t really require a quote, so I’ll just say these few things:

  • I totally don’t mind a small price bump for buying the pots over pouches. I don’t want to pay more, of course, but it’s not blipping on the radar much. I suppose that’s a form of privilege I have but anyway I don’t mind it. I will say I preferred the pouches because I could sometimes only take one scoop if i wanted a snack or three if I’m feeling sorry for myself (Lol) but the pots are just…what they are. Someone else decided how much food I’ll eat in that sitting. I do get that the ratios weren’t a guarantee but like…if you’re not a complete knob it isn’t hard to notice if your scoop is filled with too much pasta or too much powder.
  • When you said, “So, as previously mentioned, we look at lots of different things to decide this; it’s not just something we wake up and decide. We understand that customers will be unhappy, and that is the last thing we want but we need to find the balance right?”
    Fair enough. I do still think more people enjoyed them that not, but I’m suffering from confirmation bias and I have no doubt you’re making what you consider to be the best decisions based on the data you have.
  • You made me giggle with the “Can I ask why on multiple levels” in regards to my saying I disagree with the move to single-serve pouches on multiple levels. Well played. Some of the reasoning was portion control as I mentioned above, some of it is an increase in waste, some of it is that I actually enjoyed choosing my own ratio of powder to pasta, and some of it is that I just dislike single-serve packaging. It seemed like the world was little by little moving away from that practice and this seems like a step backwards. But I won’t belabor the point. The main beef I have here is the loss of flavor options that aren’t spicy. As a vegan who travels a lot, I really rely on this stuff to feed me on the road, so I’m bitter over it.

We are constantly looking at bring new and exciting flavour options to the table, what would you like to see from us?
Curious of you to ask! Didn’t expect that. Off the top of my head… if we’re talking about flavors of savory, textured foods?

  • A middle-easterny cous cous thing, perhaps?
  • Mac and Cheese! (I know, I know, but what if you put larger chunks of pea protein in it and called it “Cheeseburger Macaroni”…think about it!),
  • Japanese curry, maybe with soba/buckwheat noodles, seems like an obvious one (I know you have katsu curry, but the curry you’re using it, while tasty, isn’t Japanese)
  • Non-spicy versions of the spicy things you currently have (aside from the obvious “spicy chikn” thing

Look, if you guys make savory food that isn’t spicy, I’ll buy it. That’s pretty much a guarantee. And I’ll buy enough to feed the other two adults who live with me.

Again, thanks a lot for addressing my concerns in a humanistic way. I’m still grumpy, but more in the “old man yells at cloud” way than the “those d*ckheads are taking away half my diet!” way. (still true, I’m just calmer about it)

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Understood. It’s worth saying that I’m not a big spice fan either, but these are most certainly manageable and very much stick to the lower spice scale in my opinion!

I understand and I get your point. We’re always working on extensions and what we can bring to the table in terms of flavours. I see you’ve provided a list of sorts down the bottom, all of these seem super interesting, even the “Cheeseburger Macaroni”!

I understand the portion control part. One of the things that we said right from the start is we are not eliminating that, if you want 600 calories, open a pouch and maybe use half another pouch. As long as it’s wrapped up tight after you use half, it’ll be all good! In terms of

You must be the first person I’ve read that has had this complaint. Don’t take that as me saying “you are wrong” because you are fully in your right to have an opinion but just not a complaint you see often.

We could go round in circles calling out each other’s comments, but what I want you to know is I’m here to listen, I’m here to take your concerns, suggestions, comment,s etc and pass these onto the relevant teams. We always want to make sure we’re making the right business decisions but we also want to make sure we’re doing right by our Hueligans!

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That’s what I like about Huel, from a similar standpoint. I’ve been vegan since when there were very few vegan options, and nothing in shops and often had just fruit, nuts, flapjack bars and oatcakes. I once asked for a vegan option in a restaurant and git a plate of diced carrots and potatoes. Nothing to spice it up either (admittedly it wasn’t in the UK, but I’ve had similar issues here), so yeah Huel is definitely a winner in that regard.

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Well, I do understand seralyn’s point. I myself need variety. The best food would get appaling with time, if it is the same all the time. With normal cooked food, there is always some variety in the amount of spices and herbs, or other ingredients, while industrialized food has lost this with its standardized recipes. Mixing in various ways is a possibility to restore at least a bit of those little differences.

Speaking of variety: As a person who buys many different products to get variety (e.g. I have 7 different H&S varieties in bags at home at the moment), I change subscriptions almost every time I send an order. Is there any way I can still get a Korma bag, when it isn’t in my CURRENT subscription, but have bought it in the past? (- given there are still some left at all.) I am in Austria.

My suggestions for further varieties of H&S would be: Something falafel-like (spice-wise), something with lentils, e.g. tikka masala, or lentils/lentil soup the western way. (And no - to the Americans among you -, I am not jewish, we eat that here nonregarding).
Just get away from those huge soy-chunks like in the meals that were pots from the start.

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they are actually pea and faba bean protein not soya. I like 'em.

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So on this point, if we offered a variety pack this would be right up your streets as it would allow you to switch it up daily?

We are running stock down on each of these, Unfortunately, this one was quite low and is now out of stock.

All good options, the falafel idea is interesting!

I see @hunzas has got to it before I did. Can I ask why you are not a fan of these @Flamme?