The Perfect Glass & Stainless Steel Huel Containers💎 to Avoid Consuming Microplastics❌ & Nanoplastics❌

[Phil_C]

@Adam35000

I’m already breathing it in elsewhere,” how does much does that help?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to dismiss your concerns here - just making the point that people shouldn’t demonise one thing without being aware of the much larger issues related to it.

@Adam35000

There are many ways microplastics & nanoplastics get shed into food through food containers. The friction between the food and the container itself as the food is moved around, the scraping of the container when scooping or eating,

yes, if you damage the structure of the plastic and compromise its surface then that is when this can happen - so sure, applying energy to it like friction can do that but it also depends on what plastics you are using and how resilient they are. it’s the same reason why you shouldn’t wash and reuse PET drink bottles. The same is true for tableware, when cutlery dragging on it can compromise the surface of the glaze and allows the chemicals and heavy metals in it to leach into your food.

The point I was making about the decanting was that the food will already have nano plastics in it that it has accumulated through its life cycle thus far and not from the pack itself.

Finally, when you come to choosing your alternate solutions – you also have to be aware of the implications they have. Sure glass and stainless are both inert and safer storage mediums as far as chemical transmission goes, but each have their own issues regarding their environmental impact particularly with stainless.

So you have to make the decision on whether you are solving your own safety concerns by transferring them to someone else is OK or not. Again – that isn’t a dig at you, just pointing out that there are consequences in any choices we make that we are often unaware of.

[hunzas]

It’s a (uranium) minefield isn’t it? I only use Teflon products. I hope I don’t come “unstuck” with that choice.

[vsc]

Aw @hunzas ur wee cat is awful sad looking. My 2 maine coons both throw up hairballs no matter how much I brush them. Part of being owned by cats who only let us live in their house.

[hunzas]

He didn’t want to move to Scotland. Luckily for him I didn’t drag him into Glasgow today and he could snooze on the sofa

[epicure]

He’ll soon learn he’s in Gods’ Own Country.

[Adam35000]

@Phil_C

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to dismiss your concerns here - just making the point that people shouldn’t demonise one thing without being aware of the much larger issues related to it.

That’s an excellent point.

@Phil_C

The same is true for tableware, when cutlery dragging on it can compromise the surface of the glaze and allows the chemicals and heavy metals in it to leach into your food.

That’s really interesting. I’ve wondered that exact thing, if that was possible. I typically eat out of Pyrex glass (made in the last couple years) so I believe I’m good in that area.

Recently while cooking on my stainless steel cookware I realized that while my main cooking utensil (a spatula) is silicone, the rest are still plastic. I just liked how the silicone functioned and could neatly scrape the walls of the pan to get everything out, so I’ve been using that for awhile. But now that I’ve been phasing out plastics over the last couple months I’d like to get all silicone cooking utensils.

@Phil_C

but each have their own issues regarding their environmental impact particularly with stainless.

I’m curious, could you provide more detail about this?
Everything I’ve researched in the past describes how incredibly green stainless steel is, especially compared to the alternative materials… I’ve heard it called the “ultimate green raw material.”
I googled “environmental issues stainless steel” a bit and couldn’t find anything really negative about it. I’m busy today so I don’t have a ton of time to research this!

@Phil_C

So you have to make the decision on whether you are solving your own safety concerns by transferring them to someone else is OK or not. Again – that isn’t a dig at you, just pointing out that there are consequences in any choices we make that we are often unaware of.

It is definitely helpful to have this in mind. So many items including food have a dark side to them.

I’ve recently learned there is a big dark side to the banana markets. Wouldn’t have guessed. I need to learn more and find which sources are the most ethical.

[Adam35000]

@hunzas

Now he’s giving the evils.

Looks like a new grumpy cat lol

[hunzas]

Life had jaded him. Once upon a time people thought he was cute

[hunzas]

Now he is satanic

[vsc]

Aw, he’s an old boy now but I bet you still love him no matter what.

[hunzas]

I’ve known him since he was 4 weeks old! And he’s still very kitten like and a real character.

[epicure]

A proper celeb, prize-winner and all!
and a champion thread hijacker.

[hunzas]

Takes after his dad in thread derailing

[Phil_C]

@Adam35000

Everything I’ve researched in the past describes how incredibly green stainless steel is

Generally when you read things like that, it’s a discussion about its end use with consumers and never covers its full lifecycle sadly. it tends to be the same when you read anything relating to plastics pollution - it will gladly detail the full life cycle of that but almost always overlook other materials - oddly

there was a thread here some while back where I brought this up and expanded on it a few posts later in the same thread with some metrics.

Stainless Steel Shaker

Many people tend to focus on a few specific beneficial aspects of stainless steel bottles but also tend to ignore the full lifecycle of the product and how bad it actually is. All the benefits are also cited over single use virgin resin plastic drinks bottles as opposed to reusable ones or bottles produced with recycled resins. The production and distribution of a stainless steel bottle requires seven times as much fossil fuel, releases 14 times more toxic and greenhouse gases, demands the extr…

[DunsfordMage]

Thank you to whoever recommended Elephant Box. Excellent for making H&S in the morning and then eating midday.

Couldn’t resist the bowl for washing them up in afterwards while I was online.

[Adam35000]

@Phil_C

there was a thread here some while back where I brought this up and expanded on it a few posts later in the same thread with some metrics.

Thank you for posting that! I found it highly informative. It helps to make sure we’re looking at the bigger picture.

I believe I found a NYT article detailing some of the stats you used.

Overall when reading your posts and that article the main response that occurred to me was that this is really an argument for improving our extraction, manufacturing, shipping etc processes so that they’re more green.

Improving the working conditions with special equipment and updated processes & chemicals etc so they’re safer. Prioritizing worker health & environmental health above profit maximization.

(For example, I like what I’ve heard of the “Conscious Capitalism” model regarding this, prioritizing People>Planet>Profits, which would radically change the way things are done).

The end of the NYT article seemed to reflect the same idea regarding updating our processes:

“It’s important to keep in mind that the 21st century has inherited from the 20th (and sometimes the 19th) manufacturing processes and industrial chemicals that were developed when no one knew — or cared that much — about environmental damage. But even though climate change demands urgent ecological action, this crisis also offers vast entrepreneurial opportunities; we need to re-invent everything with an eye to protecting the planet.”

One example is this:

How Sweden Delivered The World’s First Fossil Fuel-Free Steel

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2021/08/19/how-sweden-delivered-the-worlds-first-fossil-fuel-free-steel/?sh=3dbedb5e6b55

Some promising examples from the article:

" SSAB, LKAB and Vattenfall say they will begin full industrial production of the new steel in 2026. Earlier this year, Volvo announced that it would be the first manufacturer to produce vehicles from fossil-free steel.

While this project might be the first to deliver, it’s far from the only project working on the challenge to create “green steel.” Other Swedes are racing to be the first to create industrial quantities, with H2 Green Steel claiming it will be up and running by 2024.

Outside Europe, China’s Baowu, the world’s largest steelmaker, has committed to achieving net zero carbon emissions by 2050, and is beginning to develop hydrogen technologies as a way to cut fossil fuels out of production. India’s Tata steel has developed what it calls the HIsarna process, which still uses coal but claims to reduce emissions by 20%. Meanwhile, Japan’s COURSE 50 project uses a range of technologies to reduce emissions from the blast furnace."

The NYT article pointed out that if a stainless steel product is really kept for many years/for life, then it can be worth it when evaluating the options based purely on environmental impact.

I think it would be helpful if we passed legislation requiring all products to have a label displaying its environmental impact in terms people can understand, and a section on the product listing online that shows the same.

For example, a piece of paper included with their stainless steel water bottle showing the buyer the environmental impact displayed in the form of graphs, pictures of the environment around the mines used to extract the raw materials, pictures of the pollution, a visual showing they’d have to use 500 plastic bottles (or whatever the number is) to equal the impact of this stainless steel water bottle, so they should truly use it as long as possible and make sure to recycle.

A similar label/note on every product could rapidly awaken consciousness on this issue and help reduce impulse purchases or the casting aside of owned products so easily.

As to whether or not we should be willing to poison ourselves with plastic for the next several decades until our manufacturing processes become more green, I’m not sure.

I think it is rational that the standard should be to make non-toxic food containers. That should be the default. As humans we should make food containers that are non-toxic to humans, and then try to make the manufacturing/shipping of that as non-toxic as possible as well.

If someone would be willing to compromise on that standard by buying toxic food containers for the sake of the environment, I’m not exactly sure how that calculates out.

Poisoning yourself with plastic, especially by microwaving plastic or drinking out of plastic, can potentially increase your health problems over the decades and rack up major health care costs from health issues you would’ve otherwise avoided, possibly operation costs, medical equipment costs (my dad with years & years of cancer treatments could probably fill an entire hospital with the plastic used in all his treatments put together), lost productivity costs, emotional costs on yourself & loved ones, and more.

I’m not sure if the responsibility for this particular choice (food containers) should be placed on the end-user to choose the toxic option just because right now we have relatively toxic manufacturing processes for it. This choice directly impacts the health of the end-user and their children, and could lead to absolutely devastating personal costs when considered over the long-term/full picture.

However, when it comes to other products made from stainless steel I could absolutely agree with the argument to eschew stainless steel for the time being until we make its production greener. Things like stainless steel refrigerators, stoves, and garbage cans being examples of stainless steel usage that’s absolutely unnecessary.

If someone was so concerned about using stainless steel in their food containers the best bet would probably be to just use it for life, and gift it to someone who will truly use it if you must give it away.

For mason jar lids the main alternatives seem to be the stock tinplate lids (a major hassle and risk to use for normal day-to-day food storage, and they rust and needs to be replaced), plastic, silicone (a good option health-wise but they don’t last as long as steel, and I’m also not sure how green the manufacturing is or isn’t), bamboo (will need to be maintained or replaced eventually, but bamboo seems environmentally friendly from what I’ve heard).

So they all have pros & cons. If something is truly being used long-term/forever, then I think stainless steel makes sense when talking about food options. If someone is just going to buy a stainless steel water bottle then buy another a couple years later because they like the new color better or because Hydroflasks have gone out of style now, then buying stainless steel doesn’t make sense.

When looking up the source for one of your comments in that other thread I came across this article. I had no idea people were turning stainless steel water bottles into a new consumerism craze, but it makes sense. We humans seem good at going nuts with consuming things, buying things we don’t need, throwing them away so carelessly

https://dailynexus.com/2024-02-01/simply-stated-how-sustainable-is-the-stanley-cup/

Thanks for the informative posts!
I learned something by looking at that full life-cycle analysis of stainless steel water bottles, and it will certainly be kept in mind in the future when evaluating purchases.

[Phil_C]

@Adam35000

If someone is just going to buy a stainless steel water bottle then buy another a couple years later because they like the new color better or because Hydroflasks have gone out of style now, then buying stainless steel doesn’t make sense.

You hit the nail on the head there – Understanding the full life cycle of a product is very important in purchase decision making.

[epicure]

…indeed. and to avoid subjecting the rest of us to the polluting effects of the production of your desirable consumer items: just don’t buy new.

There may be a miniscule difference to your own personal individual health by storing your powder in glass or metal instead of the original Huel packaging (a vanishingly small if not functionally irrelevant difference in the context of ubiquitous environmental plastic pollution) but by buying an unecessary new product you add to the damaging environmental effects suffered by us all.

Old glass works just as well as new, and the environmental production costs have already been paid in full.

[Adam35000]

I am not convinced that willingly consuming countless trillions of additional microplastics over the next 50 years that I’m alive—when I could’ve easily avoided it—is a good idea.

I am also not convinced that we should shrug and say “oh well” with changes we have control over just because there are some changes we don’t have control over.

Harm reduction seems like the best mindset to me. Less bad stuff in your body is better than more bad.

You don’t know what will tip the balance, how many microplastics it will take you ingesting to push the body into enough inflammation to create the conditions necessary for a disease/illness that you would’ve otherwise never progressed into having.

The standard for food containers should be that they are non-toxic to the end user.

Someone with wood flooring, with a good water purifier, with non-toxic food containers, who tends to buy clothing with natural fibers like cotton, will ingest far, far less microplastics than someone who doesn’t have those things. And those are all simple changes to make for many.

There are many other changes a person could make if they were really interested in lowering their environmental impact in a significant way.

Not taking unnecessary plane trips and instead traveling by train. Taking vacations locally instead of taking a plane. Taking public transport. Buying food locally that hasn’t had to be shipped from around the world. Not eating BEEF. Not using plastic bags at the grocery store or any stores they go to. And more. I’m assuming you follow all those guidelines?

Speaking of buying things used.
It sounds like you buy everything used then, in order to not subject the rest of us to its pollution?

All of your phones, laptops/computers, computer displays, tvs, sound systems, speakers, desks, chairs, tables, dishes, silverware, refrigerators, stoves, dishwashers, all of your clothing (major environmental impact from all this cheap clothing), couches, tv stands, headphones, printers, toilets, sinks, faucets, cookware, exercise equipment, weights, backpacks, suitcases, dressers, hangers, bikes, lawnmowers, snowblowers, all replacement parts in your vehicle that you’re able to buy used for, end tables, lamps, tool boxes, tools, power tools, water heaters, furnaces, garbage cans, books (I hope you buy them all digital or at least used!), and more, you bought them all used right?

I hope you are not using any air conditioning during warmer periods. It’s unnecessary for most people after all, and will likely subject the rest of us to more pollution because of it (unless you happen to be in an area with true green energy). I hope you’re not driving out to see movies at movie theaters. Or driving out unnecessarily to eat at restaurants when you could’ve eaten at home or at least taken the bus.

Buying used is certainly something to recommend and many, many things I buy are actually used. It’s a change we can control so we should all do it as much as possible. But there are areas where we all buy new for convenience, to save time, to ensure consistent quality & safety etc.

Buying used mason jars was a risk because of the tolerances used to make them. Small differences in the threads could cause grinding with these stainless steel lids as you screw it on & off. I experienced it with certain lids, so sticking with one brand of jar and one brand of lid worked the best to ensure proper operation.

[Delboy67]

Hi Argon I also have these same containers they are brilliant and stops her indoors moaning about me taking up the cupboard space