attacking people personally (ad hominem) rather than coming up with an argument for Huel having Fluoride seems to be common here.
“you sound like an anti-vaccer therefore your argument is invalid”
2 Likes
I’m not a doctor.
I’m not a scientist.
My water supplier; ‘At present, do not add fluoride to the water in any area we supply’, but there is Fluoride in my toothpaste.
Huel simplifies my life because I don’t have to worry what’s in it - it was designed by a renowned nutrition expert James Collier BSc (Hons), RNutr who I suspect is more of an SME than me on such matters.
Many things have tried and will try to kill me - I’d bet excessive Fluoride consumption wont.
Glass half full and all that…
1 Like
We are slightly at risk of veering off topic, so just going to pull it back by asking everyone please to not to throw accusations or attack people personally. Continuing to do so from both sides will mean I have to end the thread, which I don’t want to do as James I know appreciates reading your feedback on here.
3 Likes
easy.
Fluoride is nowhere near as dangerous as some are suggesting. The amount added has zero real world chance of hurting anyone and plenty of real world chances of helping people.
So put it in.
If there was a real large risk with Fluoride - it wouldn’t be added to water so chill out about it and if you worry about it too much, just don’t eat it. the tens of thousands of users who don’t even know this forum exists will thank you.
1 Like
How do you feel about the Huel team splitting the products into ‘with Fluoride’ and ‘without Fluoride’?
Which would you pick?
Now what if the ‘with Fluoride’ version was more expensive?
1 Like
Personally I’m not worried about the fluoride, but clearly a lot of people are. Adding it has minimal benefits and seems to be Huel overreaching it’s intended purpose. How many people are in parts of the world where no matter how hard they try they can’t get hold of some fluoridated toothpaste, yet have no problem ordering Huel? I say from a business perspective, take it out. Huel will lose customers (even if it’s just a few) by leaving it in, but I doubt anyone’s going to stop using Huel if it’s excluded, since it wasn’t even there originally anyway.
6 Likes
If fluoride was really that harmful to all your lovely pineal glands, shutting off your third eyes stopping your from meditating and aligning your chakra, then I’m sure huel would not be able to sell the stuff to people in the UK because of our lovely strict laws we have.
Case closed. Thanks for wrapping that up @James_Swift. You’re only mistake there is that the “food environment” in most Western countries is totally a mess despite all of these laws. Huel was a welcome break from that until they hopped from a low Sodium to a moderate Sodium to a high Sodium formula and started adding Fluoride for reasons beyond nutrition.
Is Huel food or toothpaste? Has anyone tried rubbing it onto their skin - it should make a great face mask. You could probably make bricks out of it (as it sets like concrete in the air) and build a house too. But I just want to eat it - that’s what it was originally designed for and now it is drifting from that design goal.
Have any of you considered this from a simple design perspective? It doesn’t matter that they added Fluoride, for example, what matters is that they added something that you do NOT need nutritionally. Imagine if they added Creatine tomorrow. That would be ridiculous. I add my own Creatine to my Huel (v1.2) so would I be delighted? - no way, because I know that it would be unfair on people who do not want/need or understand Creatine. So all of you people sitting on the fence and saying “Oh whatever, I don’t mind them adding a bit of Fluoride” - what ingredient would it take for them to add to piss you off? Salt (they’ve done that)? Thickening Gums (they’ve done that) Sugar? Maltodextrin? Soy? Antibiotics? Resveratrol? Chocolate chips? Where do you draw the line?
EDIT: I would like to make a formal request for the addition of antibiotics to Huel. Just like Fluoride, I think it would be universally beneficial for our health (except our gut microbiome, but who cares) and they are cheap anyway. And just like Fluoride I have no idea what doses to use so just use “a small bit of all of them”. Let’s make Huel great again - nutrition for public health.
6 Likes
I cant see fluoride in the next version. It would make absolutely no sense. To lose current customers, put off new customers, isnt part of a good business model. Especially when it is all for nothing apart preserving the nutritionists ego. Same with salt levels and hopefully in UU the gum arabic will be reintroduce and the diabolical mess it was replaced with gone.
Besides it would be a selling point for competitors “we dont add fluoride”
In fact now I think about it I cant imagine any other food that could be brought to market with “added fluoride” on the label and peeps going for it. Its like how I would imagine the 60s in USA to be, some douchebag on an advert going “with added fluoride” smiling away.
The fact that the co founder is the nutritionist which I didnt realise is also a cause for concern because who is going to argue with him? That is why I believe these decisions have been made, because in no sector I work in, would a team all conclude what is incorrect.
I think everyone just goes yes James yes James yes James. I read somewhere that one member of the team questioned fluoride. I bet it was a whimper.
2 Likes
The trouble with this is nuetrition is a ever evolving science so the stuff they have in huel allready might not be “what your body needs” I doubt you have looked into every chemical in its ingrediant list so far and kicked up a fuss, lets face it fluoride is the new glutan and everbody who does not understand how science works is jumping on it.
Maybe if you grow up with your government adding stuff to your water supply you end up not caring. For the 98% of us who don’t, it’s a rather uncomfortable thought. Having it added to food is just as creepy.
Actually it might surprise you but I have scanned through it.
Its all relatively sound hence why I have bought Huel, apart from gum arabic replacement in the UU version and the fluoride and salt being needlessly added.
There are various options for each component of Huel and picking the best out of the available options is what it should be about.
Although I agree there is a lot of hysteria regarding food additives, saying “I bet you have not even researched this” does not stand as an argument in a discussion. It would be more helpful if you could argue for why you think fluoride would benefit Huel.
Disclaimer, I have no idea what I am talking about when it comes to fluoride. Hence why I won’t actually say yes or no to it or take part in the poll.
1 Like
Hi @t00sp00ky - a little unfair, I feel, especially as I’m taking quite a bit of stick over some of the changes from a few people; plenty are disagreeing with me, althought, granted, no one is arguing with me, but that’s because it takes two to argue and I won’t argue!
I really welcome feedback and, please be assured, I am reading all of it; if I do make any changes it will be based on readin credible material though; pseuodoscience will be ignorred. There are, however, some good links people have posted in this and other threads.
Please keep feedback coming, folks.
1 Like
Can I ask why you feel it’s ‘creepy’? I can only give you my word that any changes made are because we wish to produce what we believe to be the best product.
Fair enough. Thanks for the response.
There is plenty of scientific research and papers available to you to make the correct decisions. Pseudoscience should not come into this at all, and I do not believe any of the neg feedback regarding salt, Fluoride, Carrageenan, Xanthan and Guar Gum is based on pseudoscience. I certainly haven’t seen any gibberish being posted, apart from pineal gland and anti-vaccer garbage.
I hope you take a look at one of my other replies to you with regards to the removal of gum arabic in the UU version. I feel that was an error due to what you replaced it with, namely Carrageenan, Xanthan and Guar Gum, especially Carrageenan. Gum arabic was a better choice.
Try snd sort this asap as I have 1 bag left of v1.2 
Also I might add, UU v1.2 was sound
I might just point out that you could do better than only giving your word. There are much better ways to iterate a product and to justify it’s updates. And you could really have had this dialogue before launching V2.0. Look at every tech company now - they have beta and alpha releases of products/features. You need to take advantage of the users who genuinely care about this product - you could set up an “Insiders Club” who can test new releases, for example. Heck, some users even have the expertise and/or facilities to do some serious testing for you (e.g. performing regular blood work, access to DEXA scanners, enthusiasm to follow diet/exercise plans etc.).
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again - where is the version control of your products nutritional information/ingredients? Any product of this type worth it’s salt (pun intended) ought to be under version control to track the changes of the product. Could someone at Huel please consider using a version control system like Git (and host it on Github.com) to publicly track the changes of the nutritional profile. It even serves as a quality platform for discussing the merits of proposed changes. What’s more, Git is quickly becoming the standard tool for generating high quality reproducible science. If you don’t know what I am talking about, please feel free to ask me any questions. Or just assign someone in the office the task of finding out “what the hell is Git and how can it add value to our company?”.
I hope that was only perceived as constructive criticism. Thanks very much for all your efforts!
5 Likes
Makes sense, but having spoken to Huel privately on matters other than Huel itself I do not think version control systems are something they will entertain.
They find it hard to reply an email when you are practically handing stuff to them on a plate.
As least this forum is has a bit of interaction to it.
1 Like
I could do better than giving my word, sure; but that takes time and forum posters don’t, in my considerable experience, like to wait!
We have actually had dialogue before and we listened and implemented the changes; it’s just that a few here are focusing their debate on the 2-3 things they don’t like, so the other changes haven’t been discussed. Doing a beta version for a food product is very different to a tech product and not easy for a small company.
Anyway, when I said ‘my word’ I wasn’t meaning anyone to take it in reference to ingredients and changes; I would never be so arrogant as to imply people should take my word that I’m right on anything to do with nutrition! I specifically said this in response to comments implying that we were doing something underhand; I can only give ‘my word’ that we’re not.
3 Likes
I can buy that you think you’re doing the right thing with the fluoride, but as pointed out, adding it to water (or in this case food) is still a very rare thing. Most countries consider it a poison, so it is kinda creepy that you think its in our best interest. But as said, I think you are well-meaning at least.
The salt, on the other hand was adjusted upwards a few months ago, and you said yourself you were happy with that revision. Now you’ve increased it beyond the safe amount, purposefully so, and as you pointed out, also costing you money. Why? The fact that you’ve been asked why a few times and not answered is also creepy.
2 Likes