Huel version 2.0 is now live!

[Marcus]

@Lupacante

If you have a day’s worth of Huel, you’ll have had less than 1mg of fluoride

3.5mg, actually, according to the nutrition label.

@Lupacante

The lethal dose is over 5000 times as high!

Keep in mind that fluoride is added to tap water, and that at those doses it’s a safe and effective way to significantly improve oral health. And among the scientific community, there isn’t any controversy about it.

So this really isn’t anything to worry about. Not drinking Huel because of its fluoride content would be akin to not eating apples because of their cyanide content, or not eating pears because of their formaldehyde content!

Okay, fair point.

[Lupacante]

You’re right, sorry

I was thinking that, as in the UK ingredients need to be listed in decreasing order according to their weight (https://www.gov.uk/food-labelling-and-packaging/ingredients-list), and as sodium fluoride appears after vitamin A, then 1mg would be the upper limit of what they add.

But fluoride occurs naturally in some foods, so maybe that’s what bring it up to 3.5.

[Marcus]

Fluoride was the only query I had. Apart from that, I’m delighted at the addition of extra antioxidants. I also think the additional salt could be good. I sometimes find myself craving salt when I’ve been drinking a lot of Huel. I’ve noticed that since the beginning last year. It leads me to sometimes snack on crisps which I otherwise probably wouldn’t be eating.

[rikefrejut]

@JamesCollier

As you may know, salt intake is based on sodium content and we have to list the levels as ‘salt’. We felt the sodium level needed boosting as previously it was below the EU amount. This level of ‘salt’ reflects the inclusion of sea salt, sodium naturally occurring from the main ingredients and inclusion from the vitamin & mineral blend

In that case, will you please add the amount of Sodium content to the Vitamins & Minerals section on the label? This is important information for those who are at risk or suffer from hypertension.

It is always easy to add salt to Huel if someone needs it, but it is impossible for consumers to remove that salt if they need to watch their Sodium consumption.

I admit, I would like some more reassurance that consuming 6.4g of salt per day is healthy. Will you please provide a reference that advises people to consume that much salt?

I would not be worried at all if Huel instead increased the salt content to a range around 4.5g/day to 5.5g/day.

@JamesCollier

We changed the source of vitamin B12 due to methylcobalamine being much preferred to cyanocobalamine. The study you reference is looking at treating deficiency; what sort of B12 deficiency? There’s also no reference as to how they came to the conclusion.

Will you please reassure us that consuming only Methylcobalamin will not lead to a deficiency of Adenosylcobalamin? The body cannot synthesize Adenosylcobalamin from Methylcobalamin but can from Cyanocobalamin.

[alexbraidwood]

I got dental fluorosis as a kid from drinking Fluoride water and brushing my teeth so I don’t really believe it’s as safe as you make out. I live in Scotland now where they refuse to put Fluoride in water.

@Lupacante

Keep in mind that fluoride is added to tap water, and that at those doses it’s a safe and effective way to significantly improve oral health.

It’s true that it is linked to improving oral hygiene, but it doesn’t mean it should be added to Huel. I’d prefer Huel just wrote on the label that it was recommended that you brush your teeth after ever meal.

@Lupacante

And among the scientific community, there isn’t any controversy about it.

Yes there is. A quick search on webofscience shows that one of the most cited papers talking of the controversies of skeletal fluorosis in India due to very low levels of fluoride in the drinking water and malnutrition (Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Review on the Status and Stress Effects) http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10643380600678112

It is also linked to increased Anemia in pregnant women and higher rates of pre-term birth and lower weight children being born at only 1mg/L in the Womens’ urine. (Effective interventional approach to control anaemia in pregnant women) http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Downloads/article_id_098_10_1320_1330_0.pdf

@Lupacante

So this really isn’t anything to worry about. Not drinking Huel because of its fluoride content would be akin to not eating apples because of their cyanide content

Not the best example as Huel just replaced cyanocobalamin (cyanide is extracted when digested) with methylcobalamin as some individuals are allergic.

Please stop using Cyanocobalamin Vit B12

Placed my first order today and will give it a try but I was disappointed upon checking the ingredients list to see that the vitamin B12 is delivered as Cyanocobalamin. This is linked to cyanide, yes cyanide, and can cause some bad reactions in some people - from Wikipedia - The oral use of cyanocobalamin may lead to skin problems or immunological reactions such as itching and anaphylactic shock.[10] Possible side effects of cyanocobalamin injection include several allergic reactions such as hi…

[Vegan_Bear]

I wish I’d known that you were going to change the formula I would have waited the 10 days from my last order as I always order on pay day!!! Maybe next time you are going to do it you could let your customers know…

[hunzas]

Interesting tweaks, and surprising too how quickly you have listened to the voice of your consumers.

I was one of those who requested methyl rather than cyano for b12. It is easier to absorb by the human body. Having been vegan for 30 years (next Feb) B12 is the only supplement I take, although admittedly I take sublingual cyano and methyl several times a week. There are pros and cons to both.

Sodium Fluoride seems odd…but it seems a low level. My water company (Bristol Water) does not fluoridate.

Xylitol is my preference to maltodextrin as well. Lycopene, Lutein and Zeaxanthin are all also favourable additions.

I think all in all this has enhanced the product and I welcome the changes.

[pookey]

I suspect the late notice is to do with stock levels

It’s unlikely to be a coincidence that there was such great prices on the 100g sample pouches last week for example.

It wouldn’t be good for Huel if they had masses of old stock that had to eventually be binned!

[JamesCollier]

Hi guys

On the methylcobalamin issue, there is a lot of conflicting evidence out there - most of the studies suggesting higher doses of methylcob are on gastric cancer or gastrectomy patients; ie patients with no intrinsic factor, crucial for the absorbtion of B12. Does anyone have any reliable data on well subjects?

[pookey]

Conflicting information within the diet industry? Surely not!!

Thanks for the open, sensible, and interesting engagement from the Huel team. It’s great to have such a responsive feedback system.

[Lupacante]

Thanks for the honest answer! And no, I don’t have any reliable data on well subjects.

All things considered, I think I’ll continue consuming Huel as a large part of my diet because of its benefits (hardly any waste, extremely convenient, eco-friendly, healthy, affordable), though will continue supplementing with 1000ug of cyanocobalamin twice a week for safety.

[JamesCollier]

Cheers, guys. I’ve really taken on board some of the info you’ve said, and I’m looking at loads of studies right now.

This is the key point - all the data I have found points to people deficient in IF or B12.

This is one key point:

Vitamin B12 in Health and Disease

Approximately 1% of large doses of crystalline vitamin B12 found in some supplements (1,000µg), are absorbed through a mass action process, even in the absence of IF, indicating crystalline vitamin B12 in high doses and food vitamin B12 are absorbed by different mechanisms.

This lead me to think that the reason for this ‘mass action’ absoption is the mega doses

[JamesCollier]

@Lupacante - can I ask why you choose thr large dose of 1,000mcg of cyanocobalamin?

[Lupacante]

Just following the recommendations on http://veganhealth.org/articles/dailyrecs

[JamesCollier]

OK thanks - that’s the same source that recommends over 1,000mcg methylcobalamin too, correct?

[Lupacante]

That’s right!

[JamesCollier]

Hi guys

We’ve been really looking into the vitamin B12 source issue as there were some links that have made us question things. Here’s a summary.

The links reference studies where there’s been deficiency of vitamin B12, mainly citing references on deficiency in post gastrectomy or stomach cancer patients who do not have the ability of produce intrinsic factor (IF), a vital protein that combines with vitamin B12 for its absorption. Eg http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21556950 - these people had vitamin B 12 malabsorption.

Adams JF, Ross SK, Mervyn L, Boddy K, King P. Absorption of cyanocobalamin, coenzyme B 12 , methylcobalamin, and hydroxocobalamin at different dose levels. Scand J Gastroenterol. 1971;6(3):249-52 - Found that all forms of B12 were absorbed at the same rate and they claimed that methylcobalamin with IF was efficient, while cyanocobalamin is better absorbed by passive diffusion.

Okuda K, Yashima K, Kitazaki T, Takara I. Intestinal absorption and concurrent chemical changes of methylcobalamin. J Lab Clin Med. 1973 Apr;81(4):557-67 - Suggest that once absorbed, methylcobalamin may be better retained than cyanocobalamin.

The links that claim megadoses of methylcobalamin are needed also claim that megadoses of other forms, including cyanocobalamin, are useful, which limits their credibility.

One point in: http://veganhealth.org/b12/noncyanob12 is where they say:
Currently, we do not have sufficient evidence to suggest that the benefits of using MeCbl or AdoCbl override that of using CNCbl or HOCbl in terms of bioavailability, biochemical effects, or clinical efficacy. There is uncertainty regarding the claimed superior role of [B12] coenzyme forms for prevention and treatment of [B12] deficiency. However, HOCbl may be an advantageous precursor of the cofactors, particularly in the inherited disorders of metabolic Cbl processing. CNCbl is a more stable and inexpensive form that appears to be best suited for oral supplementation and parenteral [intravenous] treatment as well.

Sure we might not have evidence to support the fact that MeCbl is better, but we do know that it’s preferentially tolerated. Also, CNCbl is not natural and the other forms are. Also, we do not consume megadoses from food. Even in a meat, egg and animal product-rich diet with large intakes of these foods, at most you’ll be consuming 30-50 mcg of vitamin B12 per day a lot less than the 1,000 + mcg claimed.

The other issue raised was the concern that the other bioactive form, adenosylcobalamine can be converted from MeCbl metabolism requires this form for different processes. This is a very valid concern as described in this report: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25117994 and other links that question this point centre around that report. However, that report, again, was based on treating vitamin B12 deficiency not in well people. If you look at vitamin b12 metabolism, hydroxycobalamin, the most common form found in food, when it enters the cell, loses its hydroxyl part and becomes free cobalamin before the addition of a methyl or adenosyl group making the methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin molecule respectively. When methylcobalamin is being used as a co-factor for homocysteine metabolism, it loses its methyl group, making it free cobalamin; i.e. there is free cobalamin available for the adenosyl group top make adenosyl metabolism. This is demonstrated by this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7241237

However, we accept that this is in vitro and, although this provides a very credible explanation due to there being conflicting evidence, we are adding cyanocobalamin back into the formula in the short term until we have looked into this issue more. The added cyanocobalamin will be on top of the methylcobalamin.

I will continue to update you.

[huelzcool]

@JamesCollier

However, we accept that this is in vitro and, although this provides a very credible explanation due to there being conflicting evidence, we are adding cyanocobalamin back into the formula in the short term until we have looked into this issue more. The added cyanocobalamin will be on top of the methylcobalamin.

I will continue to update you.

Bravo. A prudent response. Will this be reflected in the Nutritional Information on the website? Will this be v2.0 or v2.1 or otherwise?

[Gulliver_Huel]

This will be V2.0 for the time being. We will reflect this on our nutrition information once the labels are made up properly and the change is made.

[huelzcool]

Great, thanks. Could I recommend that someone at Huel look into using a version control system like Git to track the changes to the Huel ingredients/formula and corresponding nutritional information over time? If you don’t know what I’m talking about, check out https://github.com/. While it might be dominated by software projects, there are increasingly groups using Git to manage the specifications of various other types of project. Huel and it’s ever changing/optimising formula is a perfect fit for this.

Edit1: Here is a specific example of a user capturing the changes to their own DIY Soylent recipes - https://github.com/zda/soylent.

Edit2: If anyone at Huel (or otherwise) could provide me with each historical Huel formula to date I could organise them into a Git repo (repository) for demonstration purposes.