Feed: "Huel's nutritionally complete meal is not complete"

[IcyElemental]

There are only four macronutrients that supply energy: fat, carbs, fibre and protein.

I’m going to be terribly pedantic here and point out there is a fifth macronutrient that supplies energy (though one that certainly shouldn’t be in any meal replacement): alcohol. Completely irrelevant really to the topic at hand, but some may find it interesting.

[ChristinaT]

Just add some rum to your pineapple coconut flavour boost - problem solved

[JamesCollier]

I considered making a joke about that too, as in a way to reduce the protein %TE

[Tim_Huel]

Wait, you guys don’t add alcohol to your Huel…?

me in most meetings with my Huel

[butt]

I always replace the water in my Huel with plenty of vodka

[Latestfuels]

Interesting answer you got there.

From my experience with Feed. SM they tend to be very protective towards their products, and not very keen to criticism. By no means, I am suggesting this is always the case, though.

In the comparison they gave to you they bring up some valid points, but they are skewed towards their read of “healthy nutrition” and what they believe to be optimal intake of nutrients. For instance:

@butt

The recommendations in terms of a balanced diet are established in such a way that the total energy intake is distributed as follows: 50% carbohydrates, 30-35% lipids and 15-20% protein.

This statement while not completely false is masking facts to their advantage. Recommendations on macronutrient intake are given in acceptable macronutrient distribution RANGE (AMDR) -NOTE: terminology varies with countries and organization. This is, a span of values that are OK for the 97% of the population.

According to the European Food and Safety Agency (ESFA), the main food institution in the EU, the AMDR for the macronutrients are as follow (2010 summary):

• The intake of total carbohydrates should range from 45 to 60% of the total energy intake for both adults and children.

• A daily intake of 25 grams of dietary fibre is adequate for normal bowel function in adults. In addition evidence in adults shows there are health benefits associated with higher intakes of dietary fibre (e.g. reduced risk of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and weight maintenance).

• Intakes of fats should range between 20 to 35% of the total energy intake, with different values given for infants and young children taking into account their specific developmental needs.

Regarding protein, one of the most recentreports on Dietary Recommended Values by ESFA, stated the following:

• The Panel considers that the value of 0.66 g/kg body weight per day can be accepted as the Average Requirement (AR)and the value of 0.83 g/kg body weight per day as the Population Reference Intake (PRI) .

This values are for the average adult in order to maintain muscle tissue.

This recommendations are not an exception, but follow the trend of most health organizations, including WHO and US Health department.

So, coming back to the original point, this figures are not set in stone.

@butt

While Feed. meals meet these recommendations, Huel meals are a little off providing the necessary nutritional requirements recommended by European health authorities.

Now, what I think the Feed. representative is trying to say is that Huel Powder’s macronutrient range is “off” the recommended. They are right, since it is below the recommended “carbohydrate” intake (45%). Another discussion would be whether this is good or bad, if it depends on the person or if it can be good to balance your diet out (since we tend to consume a lot of carbs otherwise).

@butt

This is in complete contrast to the amount of protein that can be found in a Huel meal. Here they are more than happy to overload their “meals”. If you were to consume 4 Huel meals per day, as they recommend, then you would find yourself consuming as much three times more protein (296%) than is currently recommended. This amount of protein can be harmful to your health and could ultimately lead to kidney problems.

One of the main issues it seems is the protein content in Huel. There have been some good points on why the protein recommendations might be “outdated” or should require more consideration by @Dan_Huel:

@Dan_Huel

That research is at least 25 years out of date. Here are two studies in the last 6 months showing that consuming high amounts of protein is not an issue. A systematic review of 28 studies and a 1 year trial on high protein diets: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30383278 and https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5142/3/4/62

but here are some more articles:

• Protein RDAs might need to be increased (2016) Protein "requirements" beyond the RDA: implications for optimizing health - PubMed
• Protein for older people to be 1 to 1.3g/kg/day(2015) Protein Requirements and Recommendations for Older People: A Review - PubMed
• Daily protein intake to be 1.2-1.8g/kg From Examine (yes, this is but a site) Optimal Protein Intake Guide | Examine.com
• How much protein per meal to build protein How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution | Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Full Text

There has also been some evidence showing that high protein diets cause no harm in healthy kidneys:

• A High Protein Diet Has No Harmful Effects: A One-Year Crossover Study in Resistance-Trained Males - PubMed

However, the opposite is true for “damaged” kidneys:

• Are high-protein, vegetable-based diets safe for kidney function? A review of the literature - PubMed

And some feel that more research about the whole topic is necessary:

• High-protein diets and renal health - PubMed

One thing is clear, the ESFA guidelines are safe, but more active individuals will require higher protein content. For most (assuming healthy conditions), even up to 2g/kg of bodyweight seem safe. The “upper limit” of when high protein is too much is “unclear”.

As for this point:

@vanquish

I’ve read on many bodybuilding websites that 2 boundaries should not been crossed: the “2g per kg” and the 1 to 1.5g fat per kg

The first (if its about protein) does not seem to match the literature. Up to 2.2g/kg or more (depending activity levels) seem “optimal” How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution | Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Full Text. Not sure about the fat, but I think similarly to protein it depends on goals and bodytype. I think for people with specific goals in mind with very high dietary restrictions (such as bodybuilding), Huel might not be optimal but good.

From their statement it seems that they believe all their products are nutritionally superior to Huel’s (hard task to do this judgement in most circumstances); but even Feed has products with “suboptimal” ingredients and nutritional values (such as “crunchy” or the chocolate spread).

Besides the nutritional argument where I agree with @JamesCollier

@JamesCollier

Is it the perfect balance? impossible to answer - there is no ‘perfect balance’ for all individuals

the point about the products

@butt

Contrary to its slogan, Huel’s “Nutritionally Complete Food” is, in fact, not complete. Indeed, the brand offers “meals” between 400/500kcal in its powdered form and 250kcal for its bars. Although needs differ from one individual to another, the recommendations in terms of daily energy intake are set at 2000kcal. Therefore you’d have to have 5 Huel powdered meals or 8 Huel bars per day to reach this value.

is very weak:

• You can easily engineer a 600kcal meal, or a 300kcal meal or a 1000kcal shake just by adding more or less g of Huel. Same with Feed. Recommended servings are just that, guidelines. I personally enjoy a ~400kcal breakfast +coffee.
• About the bars, it has been discussed in other threads (Huel Bar v3.0 now available - improved texture - #12 by ryanhellyer) that some would prefer a bigger bar (like Feed and other brand’s). It is personal preference whether you use the bars to snack or as a meal; or it will depend on your dietary requirements. Huel has made a bet for 250kcal bars. Whether you disagree or not is up to you. Must say, I enjoy the taste of Feed. bars. (opinion that others seem to share @ChristinaT
• Also, as a side note, I feel like the bars (both brands and others) tend to be nutritionally weaker to powders due to limitations in manufacturing them.

@butt

Additionally, our recipes differ drastically and we offer a range of various formats.

This is one of Feed.'s main strengths; the variety on flavours, products and the taste.

To other points in this thread:

@vanquish

Why is huel the only one putting that much protein in their food?

There are other brands with similar or higher protein % in some of their products:

• Jake Light
• Queal Athletic (slightly lower)
• Powdermatter (v small company)
• Anapur (slightly lower)
• Athlete Fuel by SBF
  etc
  But, yes, Huel is the main brand with that much protein.

Overall, there must be said that

@JamesCollier

Feed have some good products and, like most other complete food brands,

+1

@ChristinaT

First rule of marketing: Never make negative statements about the competition (especially if you can’t back them up with proof or science). Always state what is positive about your own product (if that in itself is not enough to sell your product, then the product needs improving!)

Not sure if first rule or not, but I agree that Guerrila marketing can backfire, and personally I prefer to hype each other rather than undermine.

Market is big, there are different niches and people with different taste and needs. Similar to some people buy Nikes, others prefer Addidas trainers and the climbers might favour some specialist brands.

[ChrisH0402]

Just add some rum to your pineapple coconut flavour boost - problem solved

Still feel like trying, just a little scared it’s gonna be disgusting

[ChristinaT]

It you make the Huel in about 200ml water and refridgerate (it becomes less grainy after soaking for 3/4hrs), then mix in a blender with plenty ice and a little coconut milk, then add the rum and a slice of fresh pineapple… it is truly delicious

Edit: definitely needs to be drunk through a straw tho for the authentic pina colada taste. I use reuseable silicon straws

[jeffy89]

Hueluccinos* for the coming weather and rare UK sun, absolutely gorgeous!!
(*Huel Frappuccinos) image|499x500

[Africorn]

@jeffy89 What is that?

[GFK]

My wife and I loved being on huel and had to stop after 2 months due to both of us with extreme flatulence. No matter what we tried peppermint, coconut spray everything unfortunately will not stop. Had to stop taking huel now. Such a shame.

1. List item

[ChrisH0402]

@jeffy89 What is that?

The only thing missing here is " "

Anyhow, Hueluccino’s sounds inspiring
Trying Huel in soup, pasta sauce and such is an easy one but to successfully add Huel to
something that’s supposed to be a drink is interesting.

[Tristan]

Three things I really like about Feed are the 406kcal bars, 650kcal RTD’s, and savoury flavours alongside the usual sweet selection, really tasty as well.

[8o8ert]

After reading this thread i noticed this article. Anyone from Huel care to comment.

Protein shakes may lead to weight gain, depression and shorter lives

[Liath]

It’s the Daily Mail, therefore you can disregard everything in the article.

But seriously, if you actually look into the study, mice were fed double the recommended amounts of BCAAs, leading to obesity and reduced life expectancy.

Nothing new here. Take in more calories than you burn (wherever they come from) and you’ll get fat.

The conclusions from the study were to avoid excessive consumption of 3 specific amino acids that are prevalent in whey protein shakes as they could reduce serotonin uptake in the brain increasing appetite and leading to weight gain.

[Latestfuels]

The comment section is almost better than the article itself in terms of quality.

Having the article is a reference as a must, for instance. Furthermore, using a single article to draw conclusions is like using one game of football to decide whether the team is good of bad.

In order to draw any meaningful conclusions, you would also have to see how the experiments were performed and if there is any other science backing up their statements.

I do not have the full access to the article but one thing is clear; they are talking about the role of BCAAs and extreme supplementation of these.

Elevated branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) are associated with obesity and insulin resistance. How long-term dietary BCAAs impact late-life health and lifespan is unknown. Here, we show that when dietary BCAAs are varied against a fixed, isocaloric macronutrient background, long-term exposure to high BCAA diets leads to hyperphagia, obesity and reduced lifespan. These effects are not due to elevated BCAA per se or hepatic mammalian target of rapamycin activation, but instead are due to a shift in the relative quantity of dietary BCAAs and other amino acids[…]

See that the focus is BCAAs. Also, this sentence is very important:

These effects are not due to elevated BCAA per se or hepatic mammalian target of rapamycin activation, but instead are due to a shift in the relative quantity of dietary BCAAs and other amino acids, notably tryptophan and threonine. Increasing the ratio of BCAAs to these amino acids results in hyperphagia and is associated with central serotonin depletion.

This is, the amino acid imbalance is a driving force on their conclusions. Luckily for you, Huel offers a full amino acid profile. The amount of BCAAs is not more than the rest of amino acids.

[hunzas]

It’s the Daily Mail, therefore you can disregard everything in the article.

This. LMAO

[hunzas]

Furthermore, using a single article to draw conclusions is like using one game of football to decide whether the team is good of bad.

Or one referendum to decide if Brexit is good or bad

[Latestfuels]

At least Scotland might get two.

[vanquish]

yes this is a real problem
i may quit huel because of this too