I’m reading some random posts on reddit:
It seems people are losing appetite and/or fasting. I guess I can concede this kind of “success story”. The food is so bad and so sickening that people stop overeating.
So in conclusion it’s good for “appetite control”! After all, if one craves cheese too much, then eating nothing but cheese for months may solve the issue. This is the valuable part.
I have spent months researching these topics as part of my job and prior to that my education. The ease with which I’m able to send you sources is because I have a large number of these saved in my bookmarks from that very research. You have demonstrated no ability to cite any sources whatsoever.
Some very select quotations there.
Regarding study 1, a control group would consist of a group of people consuming the same diet they ate previously as it isn’t being tested against any alternative claim. No control group here is required as it is a test against their previous diet, so simply analysing changes is sufficient (admittedly this assumes they weren’t already losing weight before the study, but bearing in mind the tests performed to check various bodily functions, this would have been evident. The fact that significant reductions were seen in BMI and LDL cholesterol (with increases in HDL cholesterol) shows that it was a result of this diet.
Regarding study 2, the full conclusion is as follows “Despite performance decrements and some negative experiences, athletes were keen to pursue a modified low-carbohydrate, high-fat eating style moving forward due to the unexpected health benefits they experienced”. Strange that there were unexpected health benefits for a diet you’re claiming is extremely dangerous. Also, “Mean body weight was reduced by 4 kg ± SD 3.1” - strange there was weight loss at all if your argument that fat just leads to weight gain is correct. Finally, “Each athlete reported experiencing enhanced well-being, included improved recovery, improvements in skin conditions and reduced inflammation” specifies the health benefits mentioned in the conclusion. So yes, in a relatively short duration study, some performance decrease was noted, but there were also massive and numerous health benefits, with the athletes involved being keen to continue with the diet.
Third study I mainly quoted so you could have a look at the mechanisms of fat metabolism which you deny are real. However it does include some figures, so I suggest you pay attention.
Why is it insane? You haven’t given anything except easily disprovable assertions.
You said there were no success stories, I pointed you to a subreddit with over half a million subscribers and numerous success stories in it. Are you suggesting these people are all shills for “big keto”? That’s absurd, and you know it. Success stories are always going to be anecdotal anyway, so I’m really not sure what you were after.
No, I’m saying that excess carb intake can not all be released harmlessly as heat as when we see excess carb intakes released as heat, as is the case with DNP, people die of hyperthermia. I really don’t get how you misinterpreted that badly.
So… you accept that low insulin levels help break down fat? It seems we’re getting somewhere!
I do. I’ve lost 30kg in the past year. Thanks for the well wishes 
No, people consume less because they’re less hungry because the expression of the hormone ghrelin is decreased when on a ketogenic diet - ghrelin makes you feel hungry and is largely responsible for hunger pangs, which is what prevents a lot of people successfully losing weight on other diets. It is nothing to do with the quality of the food (which, by the way, is extremely high - various meats, fish, vegetables and berries are a focal point of the keto diet).
Please tell me how to gain body fat, i’m at 6.8% body fat and i do zero exercise and zero caloric control.
Maybe I should increase my carb intake to have more insulin? And this will magically make me fat?
So you’re specializing in this topic and you were 30kg overweight. I think that You’re the typical low carb wanna-be expert who is not expert at all…
And let me warn you, you WILL regain body fat unless you starve yourself for rest of your life (or you change completely your diet). Like I said, you will reap what you’ve sowed.
I’m not sure if you’re genuinely misinterpreting what I’m saying or doing so deliberately to try and make a point - in case of the latter, this is clearly a straw man. I never said that having a high carb intake would make you gain fat; I said a high carb intake would inhibit your ability to lose fat. In a thread clearly about weight loss, you asking how carbs make you gain fat is clearly irrelevant.
I was never 30kg overweight, I was about 7kg overweight if we’re using BMI as a scale. One mustn’t flirt permanently with the normal/overweight borderline, it’s possible to lose more weight and still be classed as a healthy weight.
Well, I’ve researched nutrition for years, my job operates around that understanding of nutrition, I’ve provided plenty of scientific sources to counter your uncited claims, along with a huge amount of anecdotal evidence from me and people on the keto subreddit, and all you’re providing in return is straw men, insults and misunderstanding. Until you’re willing to accept there’s a possibility you’re wrong, there’s no point me using up my time providing more and more evidence for my points and against yours.
Yes, my typical diet of low-carb vegetables, salmon, meat, coconut oil and macadamia butter - along with custom-made shakes designed to fill in my nutritional deficiencies - is starving me, there’s no way my diet could possibly be healthy, my weight loss is a coincidence and my breaks from keto where I haven’t gained back a single pound aside from initial water weight (at least according to DEXA scans) are entirely mythical, as are my improved nutritional tests and those of everyone else who attests to keto as well. You have an absolutely perfect understanding of the entire field of nutrition, have never been wrong in your understanding, and your lack of citations for your arguments further demonstrates your infallible knowledge.
With that out the way, I’ll wish you a good day and allow viewers of our discussion to make up their own minds on the topic based on what both of us have said and the evidence provided. Have a great day.
I’m still waiting for you to produce an argument that deserves my attention.
You keep throwing at me stupid arguments and you expect me to throw good arguments at you. This is an unfair exchange. Why should I give valuable arguments in exchange for bad arguments?
Anyway just for the fun, please tell me what i should do to gain body fat.
As I said, I’ll allow others to decide which of our arguments have been good and which have not. Have a great day.
Yep, there is no way, because basic biochemistry isn’t an opinion.
Your weight loss can be explained in variety of way. I’ve already said that if success is measured solely with appetite suppression, I’m ready to concede it.
You’ve forgot to said how much you’ve eaten in these breaks?
Ok, your unnamed tests are fine so your insane diet is good.
Look, I’m going to put up something suitable for your level:
Again, until you’re ready to debate properly and provide sources instead of assertions and insults, I have nothing further to say to you. I’m not going to be held to a higher standard of proof than you because you seem to have an ego problem. Have a great day.
Just give up man, I’ve experienced the same in the past with him on here.
If only life was as simple as pretending to require £100 an hour just to hear a person’s arguments…
Some of the above responses are concerning from a psychological perspective, but let’s not go into that…
If only life was as simple as telling people the truth and letting them do their own research…
But @IcyElemental has obviously done his research and presented it. Every argument he’s made you’ve come back to with childish, petty and downright arrogant responses. It’s beyond pathetic. I’m not entirely convinced by keto, but at least Icy at least comes across as convincing and reasonable.
If he comes across as reasonable, then I’m failing to help the readers. I suppose the problem is that I’ve multiple incompatible goals. To help readers, I’ve to be polite and gentle. To help him, I’ve to be “downright arrogant”. I want to give priority to the readers, so I’ll revise my strategy. Thanks for your report.
The best method in any debate is to be polite and open, whilst explaining your points extremely well and backing them up. In my opinion, and I’m happy to be challenged on this by others, you’ve failed on all counts. Arrogance and gentleness don’t really help.
You also have no requirement, nor do I believe you had any intention, of “helping” anyone.
This is debatable. Maybe humiliaton and ridicule is better, don’t you think?
Not if you’re debating properly. If you’re trying to turn things into a popularity contest then perhaps such a method is more apt if done well, though I’d argue whether you managed to do so.
I’m not really interested in popularity contest. Like I said, the priority is to help people, including you and me. I’m really unsure how to help you and me. Anyway, I think if a neutral person reads this “debate”, he’ll conclude that the low carb side has produced some “research”, but they’re still considered complete idiots/fools/cranks by their more mainstream opponents. I think this is an accurate depiction of reality. Don’t you agree?
Help people how? I believe you mean inform people, which I can accept.
Whereas I think a neutral observer will see one side producing evidence and the other side ignoring it and making more unsubstantiated assertions. This is why I’m happy to leave our debate here and allow others to make up their own mind.
Out of curiosity, do you have any study showing insulin levels after meals with ketogenic diet?
I may do - I’ll check my laptop when I get home and update you. You may also be able to search for lab test results of people following the diet on google.