Look out @IcyElemental, we’ll soon see Ketogenesis repackaged into new bags and sold on the infamous ebay store
We won’t be repackaging Genesis foods - they already have sample sizes
I think it best to end the conversation here - as highlighted before, the forum isn’t really the place for these topics. Message me with any more comments (including that protein info please Joe).
You’ll still be reselling them though, likely at a premium?
I’m not going to pretend I understand the legal implications of this - But you should hold your head in shame for taking the good ideas of others and trying to profit from them without coming up with your own.
You deserve everything that comes for you when the legal implications hopefully catch up with you.
I’ll reply here in response to the question of protein vs fat (I’ll answer the other in PM as public conversation of our product on the Huel forum would be unwelome).
The reason you go with fats rather than high protein is because protein has more of an effect on blood glucose levels as excess amounts can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. There are some who argue that this process is demand-driven and not supply-driven (ie gluconeogenesis will only occur based on glucose needs for the brain (base demand) rather than on the excess supply of protein), but most agree to play it safe.
Plus very high protein intakes can cause kidney damage, so you’d need to increase fat anyway if you wanted to avoid that risk.
You going into business with LaurenMcG?
Loads of retailers and sellers do this though - especially on Amazon and eBay. I personally wouldn’t buy anything from a non-direct source unless it’s at a discount (and I definitely wouldn’t knowingly buy any repackaged food item), but it’s not illegal to re-sell. You only run into serious legal difficulties if you are not describing what you are selling correctly, or if you infringe on copyright laws etc. It’s a fairly complicated area. Most people don’t get pulled up on it legally unless they fall foul of the big brands who will sue you til your head falls through your arse, even for the smallest infringement. But sellers can still end up with massive financial implications of not biding by the selling rules of whatever site they are trading on, and end up out of pocket for all their sales plus all their postage costs plus all their PayPal fees etc. I know someone who runs a legitimate business on eBay, and works really hard to insure everything is as described, but made a genuine mistake on one of her listings and ended up £1000,s out of pocket as she had sold lots and had to refund all customers plus bear the cost of shipping and receiving returns, and her seller fees, paypal fees and listing fees never got refunded so that was £100,s more.
Any business needs genuine and long and hard research and plenty planning, if you want to actually make any money and build up a trusted customer base, no matter how small your venture is.
I still think Lauren’s idea of having her own online retail store selling a variety of healthy food products is not a bad idea - there’s plenty other sites doing this successfully. Definitely don’t start repackaging things yourself though - there doesn’t seem to be any sense in this.
Problem with this venture though, is that very often, competing brands will refuse to be sold side by side (check out any vending machine you like and you will never see Coke AND Pepsi in the same one, and you’ll never see Nestle chocolate in the same machine as any competitor either.
Plus why would anyone want to buy via a third-party when you can buy direct.
Anyway. This thread on keto has been a really interesting read, and i for one really appreciate all @IcyElemental 's sharing of expert knowledge in this area.
I don’t really see his product and Huel being competitors personally, as one is a complete food and one is a very specific diet product - completely different really.
If you wanna do a keto diet, buy a keto product, if you want a complete food that is suitable for gaining weight, losing weight, maintaining weight and maintaining health, and is completely versatile and convenient, go for Huel.
I can’t see the complexity here. You either want to do keto or you don’t (from what little I know, there’s no doing keto in halves! You either do it properly or not at all).
Loads of people are interested in keto and finding out more. I personally am always interested to learn about everything!
But I’m totally happy with Huel - it’s doing exactly what I need it to, with minimal inconvenience or willpower needed on my part!
No, it’s a different pre-existing business, but I’m supportive of the idea she’s aiming for with the reselling of various companies side-by-side so customers can try multiple different products with ease.
@ChristinaT - whilst our products and Huel do have distinct differences, I have agreed with Tim to not discuss any of ours in-depth. Somewhere like /r/soylent on Reddit is a much better place for general discussion of brands, as opposed to here which naturally should have a Huel focus.
Ah yes, of course, I agree. I was referring to the discussion of a keto diet in general (rather than of any specific keto product), as that’s how this thread started, way back when, as people were interested in trying to use Huel as part of a keto diet.
The whole thread has been really interesting. So thanks everyone
I need to agree here. The input @IcyElemental has given through this thread has been top notch. Higher quality than the average response.
I also understand the agreement both Icy and Tim have; since even if they target different market shares, they both offer complete nutrition.
Thus, I think you are slightly wrong here. Yes, the customers will have different diet preferences, but all customers are looking for whole* foods ( this should be complete foods).
In fact, Huel might decide to pull out the Keto Huel themselves. However, I do not think this diet has as a strong following in the EU as it does in the States.
Not only Keto Huel, but perhaps different variations of Huel could be interesting too.
I would still love a high carb low fat Huel…
I want keto Huel. Pleez
Yes, I’d love to see different versions of Huel.
In particular a keto version, and a version with lower fat I think would sell well.
Lots of people are interested in trying a keto diet, but it is pretty complicated and difficult to get a complete diet whilst following such strict limitations so I can see why keto complete food products are so appealing.
A lower fat version would appeal to me personally. I understand the reasons for such a high fat content in Huel (making it calorie dense and also providing essential fats and nutrients), however, being a smaller than average female, I need a much lower calorie intake than 2000, even when I am really active, so consuming a larger amount of less calorie dense huel would suit me personally, especially if the protein content was slightly higher, as I feel the need to add protein on days that I am doing weight training, as at a calorie intake of 1000-1200 of Huel, the protein intake is a little bit low.
Do you ever wonder if this is because people see it as a silver bullet?
I know quite a few people at work (typically middle aged) who say “I’m trying keto because counting calories doesn’t work”. Really gets my back up.
If you can’t count calories without keto, then you’re not going to be able to count them with keto and you’re also going to be eating a lot more calorie dense foods as the macro balance is so fat skewed.
I’ve tried it a few times and found it just left me exhausted mentally with no conceivable benefit, which although temporary, simply isn’t good enough for the industry I’m in. Need to be firing on all cylinders every single day.
@GTIPuG I think there is a lot of misunderstanding around keto diets and the amount of discipline and commitment that needs to go into maintaining this kind of strict regime, as well as what it actually involves and the biological processes that happen in the body. This is why I think all of @IcyElemental 's input on the topic has been fab.
As for whether its a suitable, effective, or beneficial diet or not, I personally think depends massively on the individual’s constitution, lifestyle and health. Some people find it works absolutely brilliantly for them, for others it is totally the wrong approach, and others ‘think’ they are doing keto when they are not.
This is why I don’t see any comparison between Huel and any existing keto complete food product. If you want a keto diet, you probably aren’t going to be consuming Huel, unless you are very clued up and able to modify it yourself to suit your needs.
I do understand why we see it differently @IcyElemental . I’m happy to agree to disagree (although I don’t totally disagree!). They are both complete foods so I can see the comparison / similarity. But they serve very different functions. One is very specialised, and one is much more flexible / suitable for all (or ‘most’!).
But I do completely understand the reason for not discussing any alternative brands in detail on this forum, this forum is for discussion of Huel specifically - I totally get that.
Whatever dietary method we adopt to help us lose body fat needs to be satisfying and sustainable and the weight loss life-changingly maintainable. Otherwise it’s a complete waste of time.
This is an important point a lot of people don’t realise when starting with keto. It’s perfectly possible to maintain results sustainably and be satisfied on a ketogenic diet, but too many are looking for a quick fix and not thinking about the other lifestyle changes necessary for maintenance.
I gave you such a headache yesterday Sorry about that.
This is a good point. Personally, I think people who start doing Keto often do it because they are looking to change their diet with some purpose (weight loss, most times). So often the ultimate goals are aligned.
Do you believe that a Keto diet is something which is sustainable over a longer period of time?
I can understand when you want to loose a lot of weight in a short time. But doing keto over a longer period of time would be very hard to do. Disciple alone. Not trying to side track this discussion but I am wondering what happens when you stop a keto or any other low carb diet and begin to eat with a less strict macro split.
hi @Huel I know you directed this question at me (or replied to me) but I’m really not the best person to answer this. My knowledge on keto diets is limited. I’ve been reading this thread with interest and learned a lot from it, but I’ve never deliberately attempted to get into ketosis myself and haven’t studied this dietary approach in any depth. I’m hoping someone else will chip in if they can help you out.
The keto diet is definitely sustainable over the long-term. Anecdotally I was in keto for over a year before breaking to gain some muscle mass. While it requires discipline, you get used to what you can use over time, and pretty much any food can be replicated with keto ingredients to varying degrees of success.
When you switch back, there can be an adjustment period just like there is the other way, but it doesn’t last much longer than a week or two in my experience.