The reason I’m keen for it to be kept open is because almost all places people discuss politics are inherently biased and just end out as echo chambers. A discussion on the topic in a place like this is bound to be far more impartial, and will allow me to see points made by people who genuinely believe the complete opposite to me, which would it turn allow me to expand my own view of the topic.
It’s my second favourite thread.
Bit like the real thing.
He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut in public. He was ranting at a journalist on Twitter once too. This is the sort of thing which can blow up in your face if not careful.
As for his opinion, well it’s obviously a dumb stance to take, but we all make mistakes sometimes or don’t fully understand something we have an opinion on. So holding it against him seems a bit silly. It’s not like he’s making a rant about being pro-fruitarian diet or anything similarly crazy like that which directly corresponds to the Huel business.
You forgot to chuck in “We don’t have an empire anymore sweetie!!!”
@ryanhellyer - 17.4 million people are stupid and dumb erh? No wonder why you wrong-uns lost!!!
There’s loads of reasons why I voted to leave the EU.
Not least because it’s going in a federal direction with the centralisation of power. People are sick to the back teeth of sovereignty being signed away on the back of vague election manifestos.
You remainers say we didn’t know what we was voting for. By God it was the one vote where we knew EXACTLY what we was voting for.
Go and look at Labour’s manifesto for the last general election. You could read it twenty times and ask them what their policies are till your blue in the face.
You would have got “We will negotiate a jobs first Brexit.” - Really? That’s great. That’s just lovely.
Remainers talk of lies, yet there are loads of remainer MPs who got elected on the back of promising to implement Brexit and are now sticking two fingers up at us just as they have done many times before.
The list of reasons why I voted to leave are endless. As is all the remainer lies. Not a day goes by without remainer lies and they actually enrage people more by insulting their intelligence even further.
“We know so much more now!!”
We voted to join the EEC in 1975. Before the internet.
Now after 45 years of our sovereignty being signed away, I have people who weren’t even born in the last century telling me that I’m stupid and that I know nothing when it is they that can’t be bothered to look things up and debate properly.
The UK is going in a different direction and the further away the better. The EU will implode soon because a banking crisis.
No doubt the nationalist and populists will get the blame when it’s EU law that is the root cause, in particular directive 2013/036.
In EU law, bank loans to government are low risk and as such European governments have built up an awful lot of debt and very few banks aren’t exposed to it.
When that bubble pops, Brexit will be the least of your worries.
Edit: ugh ok guess I’ll respond properly.
- Calling @ryanhellyer “you remainers” is a bit shortsighted. You don’t know him or what he respresents. Actually as someone who voted remain I think it’s a safe bet that he and I don’t have exactly the same views.
- Exiting! Please give us ten reasons (endless sounds a bit long for this forum)
- Please provide references. I’m afraid to call you out on your shit without feeling like I’m being unfair
Oh dear, think I need some Hoover Therapy,
My Hoover for my car is crap I need a new one, it’s one of those plug in cigerrete lighter jobs, it doesn’t suck good. Had it years so about time I treated myself to a better one…
Good points to bring up.
This is generally in response to the fact we’re being thrust ever closer to no deal, which is the one scenario the leave campaign repeatedly ruled out as project fear.
I obviously can’t speak for all remainers, but those that claim leavers had absolutely no idea of anything they voted for are morons. However I think it is fair to say that a lot of leavers would not have voted the way they did if they knew it meant a no deal Brexit.
Labour’s manifesto policies on Brexit, and their six tests, are based on promises made by the various leave campaigns. The inherent contradictory nature of these promises is the reason you can’t distinguish a definitive policy from the manifesto.
With that said though, Labour’s manifesto is completely irrelevant right now because they aren’t in power. Going further, Brexit is entirely a Tory-made policy, and the referendum would never have happened without Tory party in-fighting. Obviously for those who support leave this is a good thing, but for those who disagree with Brexit, or think that the current negotiations are a mess, the blame lies solely at the door of the Tory party.
I didn’t refer to anyone as stupid or dumb, I referred to their decision as being dumb.
I didn’t lose, because I didn’t vote. I’m not from the UK.
I wouldn’t necessarily say no idea of anything. But I would say they didn’t fully understand. That or there is something in it for them - see the Farage photos on referendum night… Or they don’t care because they’re loaded/sorted for life anyway.
If you did fully understand, and you’re a regular middle class or working class person - there’s no way you’d vote for it. It’s nuts.
Sunderland voted to leave…
I’m remain like yourself, but didn’t everyone vote the way they did because they thought there was something in it for them?
I can see the positive side to a Norway+ exit if we negotiated well, but that seems to have an incredibly low chance of occurring.
It’s an unfortunate fact that the areas likely to take the biggest hit economically are generally ones that voted more strongly for leave. But it’s also true that the leave vote wasn’t really about the economical impact. And whether they understood or not, until we can counter the reasons people had for voting leave with proof the EU is good for those reasons, they won’t change their mind based purely on economic impact. You have to remember austerity has hit a lot of these areas really hard - they’ve heard all about how our economy is booming and better than ever, and seen none of the benefits themselves. For them, the economical argument doesn’t work because they didn’t feel benefits when the economy was supposedly improving.
Personally, I feel a lot of the grievances they had were caused by ideological Tory austerity, but we still have to be mindful of their reasoning for voting the way they did. The country is polarised enough right now, we really all need to work together to try to fix the issues we have.
I’d agree with that - with the EU as scapegoat to a lot of it. Eastern Europeans taking your jobs and driving down wages, etc, etc.
But something in it for them, I meant more on a large scale, playing the currencies, etc. There’s talk that when Farage conceded defeat on referendum night that it was for that very reason and he and others made a lot of money that night.
The EU has been used as a scapegoat for decades by both the Tories and Labour unfortunately. It will be interesting to see where the blame is shifted in future. As for Europeans driving wages down, there is some data that suggests that, while immigration in general has a negligible effect on GDP per capita, this is because the working classes are slightly negatively affected while the upper middle is positively affected, so it’s not complete nonsense. It’s been completely outpaced by stagnant wages since 2010 though, but immigration has been used as a scapegoat for that too.
As for the currency and Farage in general, I dislike the man but I don’t want to speculate too much without solid evidence. He could potentially have been happy and pointing to that drop because it was the predicted result of a leave win. I doubt that’s the case, but I don’t have enough evidence to the contrary.
There is a recent study that concluded that EU immigrants don’t drive wages down. I’ll see if I can find it.
It’ll be the EU’s fault of course - for screwing us over, because they wanted revenge… That’ll be an excuse for for at least a decade.
This source is where I’m getting the comments I made on wages: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/
“Reviewing the results of 12 studies conducted between 2003 and 2018, the MAC (2018) drew three conclusions. First, that immigration has little or no impact on average employment or unemployment of existing workers. Second, that where an impact is found it tends to be concentrated among certain groups – i.e. a negative effect for those with lower education and a positive effect for those with higher levels of education. And third, that the impact may depend on the economic cycle; some—though not all—studies have found adverse effects on employment or unemployment specifically during downturns.”
So whilst the overall trend is that EU immigration doesn’t drive wages down on the whole, there is some evidence to suggest it pushes down wages for those with lower education (generally more likely to be working class), and pushes up wages for those with higher education (generally more likely to be middle class). The effect is small, but worth noting.
As for the blame, some will certainly look to blame the EU, but we’ll see if it’s a dominant attitude or not. I like to think not.