Hmmmā¦no objection to Scurryfunge though?
For posterity:
For what itās worth, Iām not the only person who understands that calorie counting alone is most likely not going to work for someone with a thyroid problem:
My advice for this thread was good and I have been shot down for it.
Furthermore, all the advice on calorie counting alone was misguided as it is almost certainly not going to be sufficient for Teedee, who is already feeling demoralised.
I think you people need to look at yourselves.
For what itās worth, Iāve found this an interesting thread and Iāve enjoyed reading a variety of points of view.
I was interested to hear (in another thread) that James Collier doesnāt recommend / use calorie counting personally.
And itās also good to hear from others who donāt find calorie counting effective.
It seems that in recent years thereās been lots of wide spread opinion that calorie in calorie out is the only way to manage your diet, but from personal experience I know that for some people itās really not that simple.
Thereās so many other factors that can come into it. Psychology, illness, medication to name a few.
I think itās important to remember we are all different and we all have to find our own way that works for us.
Iāve enjoyed everyoneās contributions
Especially @Peanuts and @Dan_Huel
Sorry to disagree with you again, but speaking from direct experience as someone who is hypothyroid and trying to lose weight I stand by my earlier comment that the whole area of hormones and weight management is a can of worms best not opened in an online forum.
This area is very complex to the extent that there are fairly significant discrepancies in what are considered the normal ranges of TSH, T3 and T4 between countries. For that reason itās always best to take professional advice from a qualified endocrinologist. The sweeping statements in that first article about insulin resistance, cortisol and leptin in particular are not helpful and just contribute to a sense of hopelessness that you will never be āfixedā.
Iām also dubious about any āmedicalā professional online who is trying to sell you supplements. Especially if they are claiming to be an endocrine expert but in fact the only qualification is as a practitioner of alternative medicine, specifically as an osteopath, a branch of alternative therapy that the NHS recognises as possibly of minor benefit in muscle and bone issues, but of no benefit outside of this area. Basically what Iām saying is this advice is from an unqualified individual and is misleading at best, and potentially dangerous if it leads to people taking supplements that interfere with their scientifically proven treatment.
Iām not a fan of anecdote as evidence, but I will share that during my diagnosis and treatment for hypothyroidism I had a fairly extensive hormone screening which included insulin resistance - normal, testosterone - normal, cortisol - normal. So Iām suspicious of the sweeping statements here as they donāt tally with my experience.
Iād also say that it is perfectly possible to be hypothyroid and successfully lose weight. Iām a good case study here as I was diagnosed 5 years ago and in the last two years Iāve lost 30lbs.
I donāt think anyone is saying that calorie counting is a magic bullet and the only way to lose weight. However there is a weight of scientific evidence that shows creating a calorific deficit results in weight loss in most cases. How you get to that calorific deficit is a personal choice, calorie counting is one option, there are others, but most of them show results as they have the effect of creating a deficit. Whether thatās intermittent fasting, cutting out sugar, keto, paleo or any other weight loss method you care to examine, although the exterior looks very different in most cases under the hood the engine driving the weight loss is a calorie deficit.
I hope you take this in the spirit itās meant - as a discussion and exchange of views. My one comment would be that itās probably best not to give medical advice on hormone disorders to strangers on the internet, especially if you are not an endocrinologist 
Awesome contribution as always @Liath 
Can I ask - did you get the comprehensive screening via your GP / through the NHS?
Iām interested because I have had difficulty getting a referral to an endocrinologist through the NHS despite long-term problems. The general blood tests done at the GP surgery arenāt specific enough to actually diagnose exactly what the problem is - they just indicate abnormalities.
I was wondering if I might have to resort to private testing if I wanted a clearer picture.
Iām fortunate enough to have private health insurance via work so saw a specialist endocrinologist using that.
I sympathise as I know the tests done as standard for thyroid on the NHS only cover TSH and not T3/T4.
Other people I know have used online private screening services like medichecks in order to get data to take to their GP to get a referral. So if you have a rough idea of which areas you need to investigate further that may be an option. Usually cheaper to get a couple of specific tests done that way first than pay for a private endocrinology appointment.
Hey all,
Iām generally a nice person with a friendly disposition who just doesnāt like being accused of scaremongering by people (who from no fault of their own) ended up grasping the the wrong end of the stick.
Look, smileys!:
I hope we can all put it down to me getting off to a bad start, but I maintain that my advice to the OP holds good compared to calorie counting alone. All I was trying to do was open up the OP to the idea that she may need to look at other factors to successfully lose weight in light of the fact that she has a thyroid probelm.
I may have been clumsy in my delivery, but I still believe my advice holds good. Maybe not as a cure all panacea to achieve ideal weight for every person on the planet, but then my post did start with āHi Teedeeā and so was not addressed to anyone else.
I donāt think I was trying to give medical advice to anyone, or at least no more than calorie counting would be considered medical advice. The links I provided were from a quick google search to back up my opinion. I could have spent more time finding irrefutable sources, but like I sadā¦life is too short.
I maintain that my advice is good for Teedee - in that she should look into these things. I never said that all sugar was bad always.
No offence taken (other than the scaremongering comment but Iām happy to let that go seeing as Iām new here and Peanut most likely didnāt understand the context of thyroid dysfunction). I genuinely love to hear different points of view from my own, especially anecdotal ones from personal experience, which are usually the most valuable in my (anecdotal) experience.
Maybe I misinterpreted but can you see how this:
And posting a link to someone who lists themselves as a Doctor and then writes an entire blog post about how your GP doesnāt know how to test for hormone disorders and that you wonāt lose weight until you read their information sheet and buy their supplements could be construed as giving medical advice? Iām not trying to pick a fight, Iām just urging you to be careful about advising people on their hormone and weight issues on the basis of a quick google search.
Thatās kind of what I mean Liathā¦ I canāt be arsed.
Take my advice or donātā¦just do your thingā¦itās your life and your health at the end of the day. If I spent 2hrs researching to find a reputable source I would be doing all the work for you.,ā¦and you would probably ignore it anyway if it doesnāt fit with your view of things.
When I get around to it Iām going to write a signature saying: āAnything I write is my own opinion based on my own distorted version of reality and which may have no basis in fact whatsoeverā.
If you want to use internet sources to back-up your opinion, itās important to make sure that the source is reputable.
Youāre not doing that work for anyone else - youāre doing it to make your point.
It was a bad article. Maybe find one that better represents your theory, or donāt include one at all (probably the better option if you donāt want to spend hours researching, understandably!)
Lol I like this but itās really not needed - we all have our own opinions that others may or may not agree with. Linking to articles contradicts your disclaimer however!
Iām all for unpopular opinions though
Which article are we disparaging here? Or are they both very bad?
Honestly, I donāt care enough. If you want to know more about about weight loss in Hypothyroidism do your own research, then come back and show me where I got it wrong?
I think the problem is āa quick Google search to back up my opinionā will work for literally any opinion anyone could possibly hold about anything.
Itās rather disrespectful to link random articles you spent 5 seconds looking up, then say āI donāt care enough to check them but you could spend several hours doing it for meā.
@Thudd You have the most arrogant and irritating way of conveying your opinion and emotion behind your words online. Thatās the reason people are pouncing on you.
The only way you can lose bodyfat is a caloric deficit, whether achieved through intermittent fasting, keto, whatever. All come back to the same thing. Physics.
If you want to spout off about being able to beat the laws of physics then thatās cool, but donāt start getting defensive and crumbling when challenged.
Your point above is also moot, RE a vast industry focused on weight loss existing because calorie deficits donāt matter.
In fact, total opposite. The industry exists and thrives because of an asymmetry of information between organisation and client. They fill their clients with dumb concepts and irrelevant factors to ensure they never realise the factor theyāre missing is the one that matters - Caloric deficit. Think about it, do you really want fat people to lose weight and keep it off if them being fat is what makes you money?
Honestly Iād recommend watching some James Smith videos. Heās a PT flipping the industry on its head by squashing all of the myths out there.
I dropped 4st ish after watching his videos and paying attention to my calorie intake.
@Thudd - I didnāt know it was your first post, Iām new on this forum aswell It doesnāt change that I believe comparing high sugar food to smoking cigarettes is scaremongering. I really think it is. And I think one of the really big obstacles when trying to loose weight is fear of/guilt eating certain types of food.
Regarding the phrase of ādiet health bombā was because your post didnāt come off as an advice or idea given from personal experience. I believe personal experiences with dieting is great to share. It gives options and ideas to everybody else. But theres a difference between doing that and sounding like itās facts of how to loose weight. To my knowledge the only thing proven to work is a calorie decifit. How you get there; calorie counting, calorie awareness, intermittent fasting and various diets are just different tools. Thyroid issues unfortunately makes it incredible harder to loose weight, but you still need a calorie decifit like everybody else.
Youāre sort of comming of as a āI know the truthā again, making a false assumption. I didnāt give up high sugar food due to health concerns. Iām perfectly healthy. I went on a vacation in the wilderness for two months and had to think about how much I could carry. Delicious snacks wasnāt on my prioty list for that trip 
Iād rather get further information on specific health concerns directly from my GP rather than google or a forum
Oh, I absolutely do. I wouldnāt expect or want anyone else to do my research for me. You didnāt research though. You just googled it. Thereās a difference.
Iām not going to tell you your opinion is wrong. Because itās your opinion.
Where youāre going wrong is stating your opinion as fact and then ābackingā it up with poor sources.
Maybe google āhow to use the internet for scientific / academic researchā
This is what I have an issue with. Your initial reply to @Teedee didnāt mention hypothyroidism at all, but was a series of inaccurate information presented as fact:
All of these are factually incorrect and donāt address the original question:
Previous posts had asked for more information to help find out what the cause of no weight loss could be. It quickly became apparent that a calorie deficit wasnāt present and the recommendation was to adjust and see what the result was.
Basic scientific method, investigation and then testing of potential root causes one at a time to establish which is having the impact. Throwing multiple hypotheses out there at once and telling the OP to change multiple things simultaneously with no detailed examination of the current status is not going to uncover the one factor that is having most impact on success.
Ok thanks for pointing out where I am going wrong.
I apologise for coming across as arrogant and irritating, for unintentionally presenting my lay persons opinion as fact and for generally upsetting everyone. Iām just an ordinary person who doesnāt have a degree in anything so please go a little easy?
I may not be clever enough to fully understand the science but I still think that a certain amount of insulin resistance may be a factor here, especially seeing as it is commonly associated with thyroid conditions? My view is that it wouldnāt hurt Teedee to start looking into it while she is counting her calories?
And I still think that sugar can be addictive, although I suspect that opinions are likely to vary for a long time on that one.
So in the spirit of learning 
the study you quoted relates to sub clinical hypothyroidism - i.e. mild early stage and not considered significant enough in most cases to warrant treatment with thyroid hormones. The study also specifically excludes patients who are already diagnosed and taking levothyroxine. As TeeDee stated that she is taking levothyroxine the findings here arenāt relevant to her situation.
During diagnosis there are certain blood tests that are commonly undertaken, one of which is a fasting glucose test to check for insulin resistance/prediabetes. Dosage of TSH can be tricky to get right so itās quite common to adjust dosage until symptoms are controlled. This can involve multiple blood tests over months/years. Whilst going through this process it is entirely possible that insulin resistance can develop due to uncontrolled thyroid hormone. But, this would in most cases be picked up by routine blood tests. Once thyroid hormone levels are stable and symptoms eliminated insulin resistance should not be an issue which is stemming from hypothyroidism. Thatās not to say that it canāt be present due to other causes (obesity, diet related issues, etc.).
Insulin resistance is reasonably common in hyperthyroid individuals where thyroid levels are not managed/treated, less so in hypothyroid individuals. This is a controversial area as it can be chicken and egg. Did the insulin resistance arise from the weight gain which is a symptom of untreated hypothyroidism or is there a more direct interaction between TSH, FT3, FT4 and insulin? The science is not clear on this area.
So, itās a very complex area best managed between patient and clinician
Iām sure you mean well, but itās unlikely that TeeDee isnāt already having fasted glucose tests.
Just finished reading the sugar addiction link and this stood out to me:
Food is not ordinarily like a substance of abuse, but intermittent bingeing and deprivation changes that. Based on the observed behavioral and neurochemical similarities between the effects of intermittent sugar access and drugs of abuse, we suggest that sugar, as common as it is, nonetheless meets the criteria for a substance of abuse and may be āaddictiveā for some individuals when consumed in a ābinge-likeā manner.
While we have chosen to focus on sugar, the question arises as to whether non-sweet, palatable foods could produce signs or dependence. The evidence is mixed. It appears that some signs of dependence are apparent with fat, while others have not been shown
Interesting study. Conclusions seem to be that sugar has the potential to have addictive qualities for some individuals if consumed in a binge cycle. The limitation here though is that this is an animal study looking at a specific set of intake circumstances (deprivation/binge). As they note in the paper, further research is needed.
