The Founder backed Brexit


#61

European immigration is a net benefit to the UK.

There is actually no significant impact on GDP, so no case for mass immigration at the current scale. Then you have the negative impact on housing, hospitals and my pet hate, the roads! Christ how bad is traffic nowadays?

The right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

Great for the 1-2% of Brits that do this, what about the other 98% that have no desire to?

The right for our banks and financial institutions to function across the EU.

Our banks etc. can function across Europe without the EU.

The right for companies big and small to trade with any country in the EU and a lot of countries outside of the EU with no barriers.

That’s just not true. We aren’t allowed to setup trade deals with countries outside of the EU, which is why we must leave. We can continue to trade with countries within the EU when we’ve left. They aren’t going to stop selling to us, 1 in 7 German cars is sold to the UK for example.

The fact that we have trade deals with lots of major economies via the EU that are a lot better than we’d get on our own as a small country.

These trade deals often take years to setup, which is inefficient. We might be a small country physically, but we have the 5th largest economy in the world!

The fact that the world’s major banks see the UK as a hub and use it as a bridge between the US and EU.

What is to say that wouldn’t be the case post-Brexit?

What would the benefits of dropping all our major deals and starting from scratch as a very much smaller economy be?

Because we could negotiate our own deals, on our own terms, without the EU creaming a slice off the top? The EU economy is shrinking. Being free of the racketeering instigated by the EU means we can buy cheaper goods from elsewhere, so the cost of living goes down.

Regarding the media, you have to admit the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Sky news are all bias towards Remain, are they not?


#62

Whether Brexit happens or not, there will be a cost to all this.

It won’t be the poor that pay, they are already skint. It won’t be the rich, they are already offshore.

It will be the middle. Regardless of political bent, it’s always the middle that pays. In reality, there is far too much of the country’s money tied up in personal wealth and property. My parents houses is worth an order of magnitude what they paid for it.

That’s a lot of money tied up in their generations property.

You can expect changes to pensions, capital gains, inheritance etc.

Benefits are all spent. Every penny cycles around the economy. It’s people like you and me that save and have money locked up in property that they want to reduce (take) the wealth of.

I’m remortgaging this month. Interest rates are too low and the banks are itching.

Don’t forget, the Bank of England is privately owned.


#63

Are you from 1946?

It was nationalised in 1946 and became its own public entity in 1998, at which point it became wholly owned by HM Treasury with its capital held by the Treasury Solicitor.


#64
  1. It’s fact that whilst they pay in a lot of tax, EU immigrants on average, use the services far far less. They don’t claim benefits and don’t use the NHS as much. They pay in more than they take out. The main reason things are in a state is because of nearly 10 years of cuts, to every single public service sector.

  2. If you don’t want to travel to, live in, or work in the EU I’m not forcing you. But why are you against other people doing it?

  3. European banking license passporting. If a financial institution has a banking licence it one EU country, it has the right to set up in any EU country and work across borders. They can’t do this as easily or as seamlessly as they do now without this in place. Plus, the single market for financial services. This is part of the reason that British banks dominate in Europe and US ones don’t.

  4. Which countries would you want to do a trade deal with that we don’t already have a deal brokered under the EU and backed by 500 million people and some of the world’s richest/biggest economies… The single biggest trading block in the world. How does a single economy with 65 million people, 5 or 6th (or 7th now? I know we’re dropping) largest, have more power than the largest trading block and biggest combined economy known to man? (Bigger than the US and China.)

Why are people who can afford to buy a brand new German car, suddenly going to stop buying them because the price goes up a few grand? They won’t, they’ll continue. This is and always has been a stupid argument. Rich people will be fine. People at the lower end won’t.

  1. These trade deals often take years to set up, which is inefficient. So let’s scrap them all and start from scratch?
    We’ve already got better deals with the same countries than we would ever get on our own. We’re not special. We can’t suddenly magic deals in half the time.

We have the 5th biggest economy because we’re in the EU and have been able to take advantage of it for years.

  1. See 3. Plus US and other international banks put their international HQs in the UK because it’s a bridge between their country and the EU. They can base themselves in London (English speaking, so good for the USA and other international banks because it’s the international language of business) and have access to the whole EU market. If they can’t do that anymore, why not move to Dublin to keep the benefits?

  2. The EU don’t cream a slice off the top. We pay our fee and have full access. We make so, so, so, so much more than we pay in if the benefits to the economy as a whole are looked at.
    We can buy goods from wherever we want right now. Prices will go up if we ditch every trade deal we have to start from scratch. We’ll be so much smaller and will get worse deals - especially because we’ll be absolutely desperate for anything.

The TV news media being biased is a pointless argument, everyone just ends up going round and round in circles. They have Tory and right wing guests on far more than left wing ones, they still won’t stop having Farage on at every single opportunity. Etc, etc…


#65

I stand corrected on the ownership.

Everything else I stand by.

And the post above makes so many good points.

Brexit is a delusional pipe dream.


#66

False: https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6399/economics/impact-of-immigration-on-uk-economy/. If you’re referring to GDP per capita, that’s a different matter altogether.

Fair points on housing (though the housing crisis is predominantly caused by insufficient building for the past few decades) and roads, but it’s absolutely untrue for hospitals. In fact, increased migration has a beneficial effect on waiting times - “An increase of 10 percentage points in the share of migrants living in a local authority would reduce waiting times by 9 days on average.” - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016762961730245X#sec0100

For the roads, we should be investing heavily in improvements to our rail network anyway.

Further we have an ageing population as is, and this is only going to get worse over the next couple of decades. Given our birth rate is extremely low and we need to cover a huge increase in the pensions budget, the only way of covering that cost is either a) heavily incentivise more people to have kids (and even then the results of that won’t be seen for 20+ years, or b) maintain our current rate of immigration. There is no alternative other than cutting pensions.

Genuine question - which countries are you wanting trade deals with that the EU doesn’t already have, or at least have in the pipeline?

Only if we stop negotiating in bad faith and work towards a deal - that is, unless you want to pay tariffs on everything we import from the EU.

There’s a reason they take years to setup…

Because freedom of movement is absolutely integral to the financial sector.

When negotiating as the largest single market in the world, we have more power in negotiations than negotiating as an individual country, even if we do (currently) have the 5th largest economy. Making a trade deal with the EU is simply much more appealing to countries than just making a trade deal with the UK. I don’t really know what you mean by “the EU creaming a slice off the top”, but if you really think that, for example, Japan will give us a better trade deal when we negotiate with them individually than has been achieved with the EU, well, I have a bridge to sell you.

Do you not understand what a devastating effect this will have on our economy? If we’re importing at low cost with no tariffs, pretty much immediately our farmers will have a massive crisis as they can’t compete with the cheap labour provided by other countries. Pretty much all non-service based industries will have the same problem, whilst the lack of freedom of movement will impact services as well. We may be able to import things cheaply, but people still wouldn’t be able to afford them because so many people would lose their jobs. There’s a reason pretty much every developed nation or trading block puts tariffs on imports from other countries, and it isn’t “racketeering” - it’s protectionism.

Channel 4 are in favour of remain, ITV I couldn’t comment on as I don’t follow their coverage, the BBC is at the very best neutral but arguably biased towards Leave (though the reason we disagree on this is because the BBC presents arguments from both sides, and we both believe that most of the arguments they present from the “other” side are ludicrous, not backed up by data and shouldn’t be shown the light of day). Sky news again, I don’t follow, but given it’s owned by Murdoch who is an extremely vocal leaver, I’d be extremely surprised if they had a pro-remain bias. I suspect you are viewing impartiality as bias to your opposition (and that isn’t an attempted dig, pretty much everyone does this).


#67

Excellent to know (or allegedly know) that he backs brexit :slight_smile: this has always been a smart company.
p.s. astounded at how fast they deliver from an order, just ordered now (eveneing) will arrive tomorrow morning, now thats fast (again!)


#68

Let’s not talk politics. Just because YOU think Brexit is bad doesn’t mean it is. If your feelings are hurt, sorry, just grow thicker skin.


#69

Let’s talk about politics. Just because YOU think Brexit is good doesn’t mean it is. If your feelings are hurt, just grow thicker skin.
:wink:


#70

The moral of the story is you shouldn’t be talking about a subject if you don’t have the emotional maturity to handle viewpoints other than your own.

So common these days!


#71

I never once said I was for or against it. #YOUFAIL


#72

Neither did I say I support it or not. I just found your statement rather amusing…

Anyway who cares, Brexit will never happen!


#73

Dyson to move company HQ to Singapore

Point proven… (referring to my Dyson comments)


#74

haha. I read that earlier and thought of this thread. Very sad to read that. You could just about defend the decision to move manufacturing to Asia but keep the HQ and engineering in the UK but to move the HQ as well just doesn’t feel right even if the engineering is staying here…for now.

If the HQ is in Singapore, does that make it a Singaporean company now? :confused:

Edit: just reading the article now and it says:

The move of Dyson’s legal entity from the UK to Singapore “will happen over the coming months”, meaning it could take place before Brexit.

So yes then :frowning:


#75

Some extracts:

“Liberal Democrat MP Layla Moran said: ‘This is staggering hypocrisy for Brexit-backing businessman James Dyson. It is utterly unbelievable that the business face of Brexit is moving yet another part of his business out of the UK.”

"Dyson’s announcement comes shortly after Singapore and the EU agreed a landmark free trade agreement. Singapore’s prime minister, Lee Hsien Loong, said the deal, signed in October, was: “an ambitious trade deal, it is a high-quality arrangement, and it is one which will fly the flag and encourage others, I hope, to do the same.”

“Sir James has previously urged ministers to walk away from talks with the EU without a deal – he has said they’ll come to us, arguing that European firms would want to sell their goods in Britain rather than lose market access.”

Hard to look beyond anything other than a see you next Tuesday at the moment.


#76

Need to get a SHARK upright. Upgraded to that from the Dyson! Way better!


#77

I like my Vax


#78

I used to swear by my Henry but a vax cleans up spilled Huel way better.
I’ve also tried using a good old fashioned dustpan and brush, but that just moved the powder around a bit and got all stuck in the bristles


#79

It’s funny, because we Scots are repeatedly told the oil and gas revenues aren’t worth much and that we can’t support ourselves (despite there being no seperate accounting of Scottish business revenues, so no way to tell… But at least some estimates suggest otherwise… But yeah, this is off topic. Tbh, Smaller nations are generally more efficient, the UK should really break up into five or more nations, with their own parliaments but within the EU, it would be better for everyone and more democratic.


#80

An old Dyson and a Eufy robot vacuum for us !!

Don’t really care where they were built as long as they clean the house :+1: